Student Loan 2015 Discussion

Lokolo

setmefree2 wrote: »

Looking at the figures in your table 17 I have to question your assumptions about graduate wage growth.

Do you really believe that a typical graduate who starts their career on £25k ends it 30 years later on £44k (in 2015 pounds) or that someone who starts their career on £30k will end their career 30 years later on £52K?

It's this assumption alone that explains the discrepancy with the figures modelled by Accountants for the BBC. The Accountants have the £25k a year student paying back £78k whilst MSE student pays back a mere £43k.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12767850

I think Martin's is more accurate.

The 2 differences between MSEs and BBCs is the salary increases. The BBC one reckons after 10 years your salary is doubled and after 20 years it has tripled. The BBC are assuming an extra £1,000 each year PLUS inflation of salary of 4%.

Now I know I haven't worked for 10 years, but salary doubling in that time is an awful lot and I think this is over exaggerating it a little and personally I am not expecting salary increases of £1k + 4% throughout my working life, although of course I wouldn't say no

Martin's from £25k ends on £103k whereas BBCs ends on £140k which is just where the difference is.

--- after your edit ---

Not all people go to university to earn loads. Teachers, researchers, journalists etc. aren't all paid loads.

Oldernotwiser

Shobo wrote: »

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

The current threshold for getting a fee grant and course grant for part time study is £22,000 based on household income so, if you're single, you wouldn't be paying any fees anyway, or for the rest of your Foundation degree.

I would expect your "top up" study to come under the new rules but you'll then be able to take out a loan from the Student Loan Company so you won't have to pay anything up front to finish your qualification.


Hi

I thought this might be worth sharing. A letter dated 28 February 2011 David Willetts sent to Louis Hartnoll (the President of a Students' Union) has been widely circulated amongst universities and colleges. It Reads:

''STUDENTS TAKING END ON COURSES
Thank you for your letter of 21 February (and the standard letters from your students handed in to my officials on 22 February) requesting further information about the student finance arrangements for students topping up their qualifications to an Honours Degree.

As I noted in my previous letter of 9 February, students completing a full-time Foundation Degree in 2011/12 who continue their studies 'end-on' to Honours Degree level on a full-time basis in 2012/13, will retain their existing student support and tuition charge arrangements on their 'top-up' course.

The same principle will apply to students full-time Foundation Degrees (and certain other lower level courses such as HNDs) in 2011/12 who wish to continue their studies 'end-on' to Honours Degree level on a full-time basis in a future academic year. They will retain their existing tuition and support arrangements.

The definition of an 'end-on' course for 2012/13 will include students topping up to Honours where the mode of study (i.e. full or part-time) remains the same on their higher level course. Those students who change the mode of study on their higher level course and those where there is a gap between their Foundation Degree and 'top-up' course will be subject to the new tuition charge and support arrangements on their second course in 2012/13 and subsequent academic years.

I trust that this reply will enable you to clarify the position for your Foundation Degree Students''.

So as long as there isn't a break in studies between the foundation degree and honours degree and you keep studying in the same mode of study (ie you're studying part time on both courses) you should stay on the current fee system. Good luck!

Thanks for posting that, it's really good news.

Oldernotwiser

calgary1 wrote: »

I asked the question earlier as to whether a student studying here and racking up a debt could then go abroad to work.

Someone replied, sorry I'm a newbie finding my way around, and said that they would.

But if these deductions are made through the British tax system, how could deductions be made from someone working in Spain, for example? Work abroad for a foreign company for 30 years, then the debt would be wiped?

If you go to live abroad you have to tell the SLC and arrange to make payments direct - if you don't there's quite a punitive default payment that becomes due.

The SLC are already using debt collectors to pursue ex students who think that they can avoid payment by living abroad.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/UniversityAndHigherEducation/StudentFinance/RepayingStudentLoansCoursesStartingFrom1998/DG_10034872

setmefree2

Lokolo wrote: »

I think Martin's is more accurate.

The 2 differences between MSEs and BBCs is the salary increases. The BBC one reckons after 10 years your salary is doubled and after 20 years it has tripled. The BBC are assuming an extra £1,000 each year PLUS inflation of salary of 4%.

Now I know I haven't worked for 10 years, but salary doubling in that time is an awful lot and I think this is over exaggerating it a little and personally I am not expecting salary increases of £1k + 4% throughout my working life, although of course I wouldn't say no

Martin's from £25k ends on £103k whereas BBCs ends on £140k which is just where the difference is.

--- after your edit ---

Not all people go to university to earn loads. Teachers, researchers, journalists etc. aren't all paid loads.

I think a higher scale teacher earns a lot more than MSE seem to think.

http://www.teachers.org.uk/node/12716

Nurses

http://www.rcn.org.uk/support/pay_and_conditions/pay_rates_2010-2011

Doctors

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=553

Lawyers

http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/performance/payscales.html




Anyways, from my own point of view I understand the differences in the two models now and the different assumtions people are making.

setmefree2

Lokolo wrote: »

Now I know I haven't worked for 10 years, but salary doubling in that time is an awful lot and I think this is over exaggerating it a little and personally I am not expecting salary increases of £1k + 4% throughout my working life, although of course I wouldn't say no

You may get quite a pleasant surprise as to just how much you can earn in your life

And I do think it's totally ridiculous to think that a gradaute who is capable of earing £50k in their first job is going to end their career 30 years later on £87K

But hey ho.... there you go.

kayr_2

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

There have been several types of student loans in the past and changes have never been applied retrospectively. I don't think that any government would risk doing this as it would affect many graduates who'd reached positions of influence and power.

I would broadly agree with this and certainly hope it is the case. However I have to say that I don't trust many in the present government and the way the country is going, it wouldn't surprise me if the goalposts were moved. The loan system hasn't been going that long really so although there have never been retrospective changes there are plenty of years ahead of us when this could change. I really hope you are right though!

setmefree2

Lokolo wrote: »

Martin's from £25k ends on £103k whereas BBCs ends on £140k which is just where the difference is.

By the way the Baker Tilly figures have inflation at just 2%, the MSE figues are at 3% so that means the MSE £103k is actually overinflated in comparison... in fact using the Baker Tilley assumtion of 2% annual raise plus 2% RPI the MSE student would only earn £78k (about £45K in 2015 pounds) not £103k after 30 years.

Do you still think the MSE figure is better?

Lokolo

setmefree2 wrote: »

You may get quite a pleasant surprise as to just how much you can earn in your life

And I do think it's totally ridiculous to think that a gradaute who is capable of earing £50k in their first job is going to end their career 30 years later on £87K

But hey ho.... there you go.

Hell I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't think it's anywhere near average, more of the top end of the spectrum.

Lokolo

setmefree2 wrote: »

By the way the Baker Tilly figures have inflation at just 2%, the MSE figues are at 3% so that means the MSE £103k is worth much less in 2015 pounds....

The spreadsheet clearly says:

Annual Wage Growth of 4%. Then adds on £1k on top of growth (bit in yellow), there's 3 sheets, each with different earning ratios.

I have taken out the inflation part of the readings and just using the actual numbers for ease of comparison (to take in account the different inflation %s)

---

edit

Just to go further onto your point.

MSE has inflation at 3% and wages at 5% (as its inflation +2%).
BBC have inflation at 2% and wages at £1k+4%.

Now this means that the BBC version has a slower increase in lower band (so the £21k will rise slower), but has faster salary increases, making the effect a lot more.

setmefree2

Lokolo wrote: »

The spreadsheet clearly says:

Annual Wage Growth of 4%. Then adds on £1k on top of growth (bit in yellow), there's 3 sheets, each with different earning ratios.

I have taken out the inflation part of the readings and just using the actual numbers for ease of comparison (to take in account the different inflation %s)

---

edit

Just to go further onto your point.

MSE has inflation at 3% and wages at 5% (as its inflation +2%).
BBC have inflation at 2% and wages at £1k+4%.

Now this means that the BBC version has a slower increase in lower band (so the £21k will rise slower), but has faster salary increases, making the effect a lot more.

I was just talking about BBC Student number one....

I get all that, I was just making sure we weren't comparing apples and pears and all that...:)