Seller just won't budge

ceridwen

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Not all sellers are desperate to move so why keep pestering them - they've refused your offer several times so you have three choices: ...

1. Pay more for this property as you really want it and haven't been able to find anything more suitable
2. Don't buy it but continue to moan about the sellers being unreasonable etc, etc
3. Don't buy it and move on....

Over to you.

Agreed....my personal take on this is that, in the sellers' position, I would have "sussed your attitude" and decided "If I absolutely HAVE to sell to him - with that attitude - then I will - but I am still not going to go beneath my bottom limit". I would imagine that bottom limit has got to be higher than that £250k - so the stamp duty limit just doesnt apply.

I would say you are probably best off to go back with an attitude of greater integrity (dont say things like "the house has been on the market months" - when its only been on for "weeks" and dont try and say that its JUST over the stamp duty threshold, when its some way over that. Also dont say something is a final offer - when it isnt actually - you would be prepared to put in another one after that.

So - a combination of a bit of integrity on the one hand and "creative thinking" about paying a bit of that extra over and above £250k for "furniture and fittings" rather than the "house" itself MIGHT do the trick if they are a bit desperate. If they arent desperate (and I doubt they are after such a short period of time) then they are probably waiting for whichever comes first out of a buyer with integrity on the one hand or you offering the asking price (and them being sure they can manage to keep you to it - rather than wondering if you might subsequently gazunder them).

There ARE peeps who can sum up people within a couple of minutes and hold to their opinion whatever anyone else says - and you might be unfortunate enough that these sellers are "instant summers-up of character".

zaksmum

I've had similar experiences. Don't need a mortgage, no chain, ready to proceed immediately, yet my offers on 3 properties of around 5% under asking price all rejected.

All properties have been on the market well over a year - one has been nearly 2 years - and one has had it's sale fallen through twice. All remain unsold.

Some vendors are just so unrealistic.

property.advert

Look, you want the property, they presumably want a sale, so go see them, without an agent and have a coffee to see whether there is some common ground. Leaving this to agents is no good, you need to find out first hand just what figure they need to move.

They may refuse to tell you or discuss it, in which case you simply have to move on. You have nothing to lose and every thing to gain.

john_white

zaksmum wrote: »

I've had similar experiences. Don't need a mortgage, no chain, ready to proceed immediately, yet my offers on 3 properties of around 5% under asking price all rejected.

All properties have been on the market well over a year - one has been nearly 2 years - and one has had it's sale fallen through twice. All remain unsold.

Some vendors are just so unrealistic.

We had the opposite, made offers, declined, properties sold for higher.

All depends on the property and location.

IMO I don't see why the OP offered 249950, seems a strange amount.

OP has already stated that in months of looking they cannot find a more suitable for under 250k so does that in itself not suggest that the property may be woth more than 250k. If there were a selection of suitable properties then pressumabley the vendors would have to consider lowing the price.

Again IMO the stamp duty argument is weak. If you went to buy fuel and said I can't afford all the tax on this transaction you wouldn't get a discount. Again from my experience I got annoyed as a seller when people said 250k due to SD as they knew the house price and the associated tax liability so if you can't afford it don't look! We always said we would pay the additional tax but people rarely put the offer up as the SD was just a line to get a cheaper place. I mean really why as a seller would I discount 20k to save YOU 5k!

SandC

I'm genuinely interested to know at what value a house should be before you disregard the £250k stamp duty threshold? Should nobody ever have a house in the price range of £250-£300k or what?

This house is priced way over the threshold.

Not everyone prices their house too high, there is usually scope for negotation but £30k is a big negotation.

Just because someone paid x for their home in whatever year doesn't mean they should go around doing buyers favours by pricing it lower than market rate.

What is the house really worth? As others have said you need sold price comparisons. If they were looking to sell for under the threshold they would probably have priced at £260k. Perhaps wait and see if next door goes through and at what price - on at £265k could be interesting.

hazyjo

Personally, I wouldn't get back in touch with the agent. You've given your offer a few times now, just leave it on the table. Am sure they'll be in touch if they do decide to drop. If I was a seller and someone made the same offer several times, I'd start feeling annoyed and would probably end up telling the EA I wouldn't sell to them even if I had to sell for even less. Some people find it a bit bullying or intimidating - just let the offer sit there and they'll approach you when the time's right. In the meantime, I hope you find something else.

I wish they'd change that bloody stamp duty system. It does seem ridiculous that the seller has to drop a huge amount to save the buyer around £5k, but that's what the stamp duty level does in a falling market. I lost out to it big time too as the prices were dragged down extremely quickly. That was a 2 bed, and I've since noted the 3 beds have been pulled down to that level now. Madness. I think it's responsible for much of the recession! Should only be an increased percent on the amount over that threshold, not the whole lot.

If it's any consolation, I do think they'll have to drop. It's getting harder and harder to sell properties between that £250k-280k bracket for more than £250k. If someone did love it enough to buy it at that price, chances are the valuer would undervalue it anyway. They're not stupid and know that the threshold would drag it down soon if prices drop further.

Jx

hazyjo

SandC wrote: »

I'm genuinely interested to know at what value a house should be before you disregard the £250k stamp duty threshold? Should nobody ever have a house in the price range of £250-£300k or what?

This house is priced way over the threshold.

Not everyone prices their house too high, there is usually scope for negotation but £30k is a big negotation.

Just because someone paid x for their home in whatever year doesn't mean they should go around doing buyers favours by pricing it lower than market rate.

What is the house really worth? As others have said you need sold price comparisons. If they were looking to sell for under the threshold they would probably have priced at £260k. Perhaps wait and see if next door goes through and at what price - on at £265k could be interesting.

It's because the more prices drop, the quicker the price would be dragged down to the threshold. Sellers are now pricing properties worth £265k at things like £280k and wondering why they're not getting offers.

In a falling market, it's the way it works. In a rising market, people would quite happily pay £265k.

The most ridiculous thing regarding property sales IMO. The quicker they sort it out, the better. Does my head in.

Mine was 'worth' £280-300k at the peak. Sold this year for £228,500 - the price I paid for it in 2006. Grrrr.

Jx

ukcarper

With a £275k house the jump from 1% to 3% stamp duty would mean an extra £5.5k so if the seller drops £5.5k that would take care of the stamp duty.

If the £275k house was say a 4 bed and 3 beds are selling for £250k why should someone accept £250k for the 4 bed just because of stamp duty.

hazyjo

Because soon the 3 beds will be worth £220k-ish and the 4 beds will be down at <£250k. That's what happens... the stamp duty drags the market down cos people are being cautious about what they spend.

Who would want to buy at £280k in a falling market knowing that pretty soon after buying, the chances are £30k or so will be wiped off their house. If the threshold wasn't there, chances are it would just creep down in value like everything else.

I certainly wouldn't buy just over a stamp duty threshold in a falling market.

Jx

john_white

hazyjo wrote: »

Because soon the 3 beds will be worth £220k-ish and the 4 beds will be down at <£250k. That's what happens... the stamp duty drags the market down cos people are being cautious about what they spend.

Who would want to buy at £280k in a falling market knowing that pretty soon after buying, the chances are £30k or so will be wiped off their house. If the threshold wasn't there, chances are it would just creep down in value like everything else.

I certainly wouldn't buy just over a stamp duty threshold in a falling market.

Jx

Why buy a 4 bed house for 280k if you plan it sell it so quickly? The market as is is falling, I'd say the majority of people buying 4 bed house at that price are families who plan on buying a home for many years so todays market for resale is low on the agenda. For an investment, sure it's a big risk.