Tenant left house - has rent arrears and the place is a mess...

Werdnal

moneybunny123 wrote: »

taxsaver wrote: »

This is the reason why I suggested to you that you had 'something with you' that you simply asked her to sign!
QUOTE]

It wasn't the tenant that met us at the property - it was her Father.

So you could have drafted a quick written statement of surrender and given it to her father to give her to sign. If you had done this and provided a stamped addressed envelope, she could have signed and posted back to you yesterday or this morning, and you would be one more step towards sorting this fiasco out. You do not seem to be organised or helping yourself much here. Asking for advice is one thing, but we cannot hold your hand and make you do these things. It is not in your tenant's interest to have to put something in writing to you, its for your benefit so she's probably not going to sort it out for you! It may seem like a minor thing, but if you are going to court to recover costs here, every piece of paper you can get to prove that you are doing things correctly will add weight to your claim.

Days that are passing without making progress are days that are wasted and costing you money - time to get your !!!!! in gear!

BitterAndTwisted

I would have thought that the handing over of the keys would be a strong signifier of the tenant having surrendered the property.

Get a couple of contractors round to give you quotes for the plumbing, cleaning & redecorating works. That's if you have a proper inventory from the start of the tenancy. An argument could be made that the property could have needed redecoration by now since the tenancy started over two years ago, so a reasonable landlord may not choose to charge the tenant for 100% of it. Perhaps for appearances sake with the DPS you could choose to charge the tenant for 60% of the estimated cost? Whether you actually instruct contractors or not is immaterial.

Note that the expiry date of the S21 on the 4th of July is not the "eviction date". A tenant can only be lawfully evicted by a court, not a document issued by you.

moneybunny123

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

I would have thought that the handing over of the keys would be a strong signifier of the tenant having surrendered the property. Who's to say she hasn't got a spare?

Get a couple of contractors round to give you quotes for the plumbing, cleaning & redecorating works. That's if you have a proper inventory from the start of the tenancy. An argument could be made that the property could have needed redecoration by now since the tenancy started over two years ago, so a reasonable landlord may not choose to charge the tenant for 100% of it. Perhaps for appearances sake with the DPS you could choose to charge the tenant for 605 of that cost? Whether you actually instruct contractors or not is immaterial. Agreed, and as I've said, I'd be happy to overlook decorating costs as we intend to move back there ourselves and redecorate to our own personal tastes. It's more the fact that she hasn't even made the effort to try and restore it to looking even close to what it did when she moved in.

Note that the expiry date of the S21 on the 4th of July is not the "eviction date". A tenant can only be lawfully evicted by a court, not a document.Yes, I realise that - I just wanted to make sure I was correct in the giving the date that the poster was after.

Werdnal - I was told by the tenant that she would be giving a letter to her father to give to me. When I asked him for it, he said she hadn't but would email it. Last night, she told me via text she had no internet access now, but would post something to me within a day or two.

Werdnal

moneybunny123 wrote: »

Werdnal - I was told by the tenant that she would be giving a letter to her father to give to me. When I asked him for it, he said she hadn't but would email it. Last night, she told me via text she had no internet access now, but would post something to me within a day or two.

Tenant seems to have told you and promised you a lot of things during this thread that she hasn't delivered - why do you still take her word that she will do these things?

I agree that surrender of the keys can be taken as ending the tenancy, and in a "normal" tenancy with no hassle, arguments or possible claims for damage at the end, this would suffice. However, in this complicated situation, proof of the date this was done on a piece of paper signed by the tenant is better! You should be looking for every i you can dot, and t you can cross in your favour.

moneybunny123

Werdnal wrote: »

Tenant seems to have told you and promised you a lot of things during this thread that she hasn't delivered - why do you still take her word that she will do these things?

I agree that surrender of the keys can be taken as ending the tenancy, and in a "normal" tenancy with no hassle, arguments or possible claims for damage at the end, this would sufficie. However, in this complicated situation, proof of the date this was done on a piece of paper signed by the tenant is better! You should be looking for every i you can dot, and t you can cross in your favour.

You sound like my husband Yes, of course, and I will make sure I get it in writing and so far have made sure that she's signed every receipt, and I've kept every bit of correspondence from her (texts, emails, etc). Call me gullible, but I do expect that she will produce something in writing.

How many of you think it's worth me contacting the agency that called me to get a verbal reference for her, to tell them that she has rent arrears and left the place in a state? Any mileage in it? Or is it just likely to backfire on me?

G51shopaholic

Why did you give her a reference in the 1st place?

I can guarantee she used YOUR RENT MONEY to pay the deposit/advance rent on the new place.

With regards to redecorating - you should have raised this issue when it was 1st noticed, not left her to run riot over YOUR property.

You were too soft, you felt 'sorry' for your tenant and she's ripped the **** out of you.

Your doing the right thing by getting quotes for everything, but you'll need to take wear and tear into consideration.
I would take her the full road via court to try and get money back but you might find this is throwing good money after bad.

I live in Scotland and worked in letting for 7yrs. Something for you to note - you gave her 2mths notice but she can give you 1mths notice in return. This maybe her arguement.

G51shopaholic

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL FOR A LANDLORD TO ENTER THEIR PROPERTY IF THEY FEEL THERE IS A DANGER OF DAMAGE.

When I was employed as Letting Manager I had to make this decision several times. Mostly with tenant permission ie when neighbours
reported water ingress, occasionlly when tenants had absconded. BUT ONLY EVER AFTER ALL ATTEMPTS TO CONTACT TENANTS HAD FAILED.

TRUE STORY - Tenant left 6mth old puppy in flat with no food and no water and went on a weeks holiday! I got to her (the puppy) just in time with
help from another set of tenants who worked for SSPCA.

moneybunny123

G51shopaholic wrote: »

Why did you give her a reference in the 1st place? Because I wanted her out. The last thing I wanted was for her to be unable to get a new place and end up staying living in mine. Ever heard of cutting your losses?

I can guarantee she used YOUR RENT MONEY to pay the deposit/advance rent on the new place. I've no doubts that she did - she admitted as much.

With regards to redecorating - you should have raised this issue when it was 1st noticed, not left her to run riot over YOUR property. I had no problem with her redecorating. She asked my permission, I gave it. But she was also told (as per the Tenancy Agreement) that it must be returned to magnolia when leaving. My problem is more about the fact that no effort has been made to return it to its original condition, i.e. drilled holes not filled in, etc.

You were too soft, you felt 'sorry' for your tenant and she's ripped the **** out of you. Yes, I realise this. This was never in doubt. If you read my original post I admit that I always gave her the benefit of the doubt and that it's cost me dear.

Your doing the right thing by getting quotes for everything, but you'll need to take wear and tear into consideration. I have.
I would take her the full road via court to try and get money back but you might find this is throwing good money after bad. Exactly. I have little money to throw, which is why I'm just hoping she'll be forthcoming with some recompense in order to avoid a CCJ. She doesn't know that I may well not pursue this through the courts. Obviously if I continue to find further problems (such as blocked drains, etc) then I will. But right now I'm trying to weigh up my options.

I live in Scotland and worked in letting for 7yrs. Something for you to note - you gave her 2mths notice but she can give you 1mths notice in return. This maybe her arguement. Her Tenancy Agreement states she can give one months notice but this MUST be the day before a rental due date (i.e. the 4th of the month). For her to have given me one months notice, she needed to do this on the exact same day I served her two months notice. She did not. Her next opportunity would have been on 4th June - but that month would have taken her up to the 4th July, which was the day she was supposed to leave by anyway.

G51Shopaholic - what an awful story. Glad the puppy was ok. And, in response to previous posters who told me I was wrong to enter the property, she'd told me in a text message that I could.

may_fair

Is this an assured shorthold tenancy in England/Wales? YES
What date (dd/mm/yy) did the fixed term commence? 05.04.09
What was the length of term? 6 months then periodic
Was there a break clause and did you exercise it? if so, please quote the exact wording of the break clause. Not that I know of (not really sure what you mean by this question)
Was it a s.21 notice you served? Yes
What date did it expire? The notice? Do you mean her "eviction date"? 4th July
Did T pay a deposit and, if so, did you protect it and provide T with the prescribed information? Yes (with DPS) and Yes.
What date did T vacate? Keys handed over yesterday (06.06.11) nothing officially in writing with a signature yet though.

Assuming you mean that the fixed term expired and that a statutory periodic tenancy automatically arose (as opposed to the contract providing for a contractual periodic tenancy following the fixed term), then the tenancy periods run 5th - 4th of the month (if rent is payable monthly).

T's notice in a periodic tenancy should be at least one month also expiring at the end of a tenancy period. T has told you verbally that she vacated the property on the 5th, and returned keys on 6th June. You could treat this as T's notice and T would therefore be liable for rent in lieu of notice up to 4th August (because, if she had given written notice on the 5th June, that's when it would've have to expire). Having said that, it's possible a court/adjudicator would be lenient and rule that T is only liable up to 4th July, as the 'notice' was only just past the deadline.

However, as I said before, if you take possession, enter and redecorate or do other acts inconsistent with the tenancy continuing, T will have a case to argue that you have accepted her offer to surrender (should you claim against her for unpaid rent), and, if a court/adjudicator accepted her argument, the tenancy/T's liability for rent would end on the date you did those acts, because there would be a surrender by operation of law.

And once again, a s.21 notice is not a notice to quit. The expiry date is not the 'eviction date', it is the date after which you may apply to the court for a possession order.

may_fair

moneybunny123 wrote: »

Her Tenancy Agreement states she can give one months notice but this MUST be the day before a rental due date (i.e. the 4th of the month). For her to have given me one months notice, she needed to do this on the exact same day I served her two months notice. She did not. Her next opportunity would have been on 4th June - but that month would have taken her up to the 4th July, which was the day she was supposed to leave by anyway.

If this is a statutory periodic AST, provisions for notice in the expired contract do not carry through into the periodic tenancy. Statutory notice periods apply.

If this is a contractual periodic AST, then the provisions for T's NTQ do continue to apply.

Doesn't really matter as in your particular case it's the same notice required either way, but it's important to know the difference.

And, no, the 4th July isn't the day T is 'supposed to leave', it's the day after which you are entitled to apply to the court for possession.