IMPORTANT REMINDER: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information. If you are uploading images, please take extra care that you have redacted all personal information.
Advent-ures in the MSE Forum... Our Advent calendar is live, helping you discover a new corner of the community each day. Visit the homepage and scroll down

Almost killed by negligent garage work

in Motoring
43 replies 6.5K views
245

Replies

  • TigerspainTigerspain Forumite
    59 Posts
    +1 to what SB is saying really, You shouldnt be using heat around steering components especially if unqualified in what can and cannot be heated (Which no doubt these idiots were not), I dont think the thing about your brother not having gauges is anything to dwell upon, Steering components can be fitted without them but obviously must be even each side and obviously the car must be aligned in the fist place before the work is done, It is a little odd but again not really too relevent to your original problem, Can you answer the questions in my post then we can move this thread along and hopefully help with the issue :-D
    I dont have to show riches, To pull up, Pull of with some bad b*tches, It's about my persona, Aint nothing like a man that can do what he wanna
  • motorguymotorguy Forumite
    22.3K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Forumite
    endorfin wrote: »

    I'm not on this forum asking if anyone thinks the 2 are linked, I believe they are. I'm asking where I stand legally. According to the AA website it states that if you took a car to a garage and work carried out was substandard then the garage is in breach of contract or even neglilent and that I am entitled to have the problem put right at another garage and claim the costs back but it is reasonable to give the original garage the opportunity to rectify the problem.

    If the part failed as opposed to say, a nut coming lose, how come its the garages fault?
  • alleycat`alleycat` Forumite
    1.9K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    pgilc1 wrote: »
    If the part failed as opposed to say, a nut coming lose, how come its the garages fault?

    As posted above.
    The incorrect application of heat could have fatigued or damaged parts.

    The top and bottom is the OP needs an independent inspection, details of the last service, MOT's, observations, etc.

    Without it all pointing in the OP's favour then getting the garage to admit liability on a 10 year old car of unknown (by us) mileage is going to be hard work.

    That would be my thoughts on it anyway.
  • endorfin wrote: »
    He'd be more than happy to inspect it but I'm in Brighton & he's in north wales and the car is undrivable.

    Slight tyre wear is common in a lot of cars, this is the first time I've taken this car in for a wheel alignment. The wear was only slight and over many thousand miles so there wasn't anything seriously wrong.

    Immediately after having a wheel alignment there is a serious steering problem.

    I'm not on this forum asking if anyone thinks the 2 are linked, I believe they are. I'm asking where I stand legally. According to the AA website it states that if you took a car to a garage and work carried out was substandard then the garage is in breach of contract or even neglilent and that I am entitled to have the problem put right at another garage and claim the costs back but it is reasonable to give the original garage the opportunity to rectify the problem.

    Basically you have to prove that the 11 year old steering box/rack on an 11 year old car wasn't faulty or worn which is going to be made more difficult by the fact it needed to go in for wheel alignment. The steering rack on my car is 7 years old and done 153k and I don't need to get my wheels re-aligned. Re-alignment after its been fine for years tends to be down to something being worn or when a worn part has been replaced.

    You are going to have to pay someone to remove the rack, dismantle it and inspect it. You cannot avoid this. If that then proves the damage was done by the garage doing the wheel alignment then you can recoup the costs BUT:

    ALL STEERING RACKS ARE DESIGNED SO THE STEERING ARMS CAN ROTATE. Applying heat is not out of the ordinary and would not have caused a problem as your brakes do the same. Pulling and pushing on it is no different to the forces applied when trying to move the wheel from side to side in normal steering.
  • edited 3 June 2011 at 11:18AM
    HammymanHammyman
    9.9K Posts
    edited 3 June 2011 at 11:18AM
    s_b wrote: »
    Rereading your post again and i realise you said tracking place used heat to undo, i presume the track rod end lock nuts,now unfortunately heat and steering are a big no no because the heat weakens the parts and i believe but im not a metallurgist that the steering arms are cold cast for this very reason and the cast track rod ends on most cars can split with the heat or due to heat transfer ruin the grease in the ball end
    I still find it hard to believe that your brother that runs a garage doesnt have a preferred recommended tracker he recommends or has his own simple gauges because i still cant understand how he changes steering components himself without alignment afterwards
    To finish never use heat on steering components unless you really have to and then you must change them due to the fact the heat changes the makeup of this component just like you would automatically renew pinch bolts in lower ball joints

    Sorry, utter bollox. Where do you think the heat generated in braking goes?

    And it was the locking nut that was heated to expand it. I suggest that unless you are actually a mechanic or a mechanical engineer, you keep your half-baked opinions to yourself. Heating up nuts and bolts to free them has been an accepted practice for CENTURIES.
  • hartcjharthartcjhart Forumite
    9.5K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    pitkin2020 wrote: »
    Well legally its up to you to prove they were at fault and not for them to prove they weren't. If you are sure the fault was caused by them then your only option is to get an independent inspection and report which you will have to pay for. If it proves they were at fault then you will be able to claim that back along with other costs. Of course if the report comes back with something like general wear and tear/age related or anything else like that you won't get the cost of that inspection back or any further costs as your evidence has gone.
    I certainly wouldn't get your brother to provide the independent inspection as he is family so could show a favoured report, he could of course add a report stating the condition of the car and his findings when he last serviced and he could act as witness to the before and after effects. Whether or not it would be accepted in a court I don't know.


    OP follow this advice it is the best/only option for you

    forgot to add you need to change the over dramatic thread title,to 'nearly caused an accident'
    I :love: MOJACAR
  • TigerspainTigerspain Forumite
    59 Posts
    Hammyman wrote: »
    Sorry, utter bollox. Where do you think the heat generated in braking goes?

    And it was the locking nut that was heated to expand it. I suggest that unless you are actually a mechanic or a mechanical engineer, you keep your half-baked opinions to yourself. Heating up nuts and bolts to free them has been an accepted practice for CENTURIES.

    It's not total bollox although I do often scratch my head at sb's 'mechanical' posts often as they seem a little....odd to say the least Anyway if someone is using a blowtorch around brake lines, Hydrolic lines etc etc it would be better to know what your doing, It is bollox in the sense that a lot of heat is generated in that area of the car anyway being so close to the engine and the braking system and if applied properly the heat wouldnt make a difference and is commonplace for removing tight/rusted nut's.

    The op needs an inspection of his hydrolic lines to check for damage particually BURN damage on the lines, If there is, Well then you might just have a case!!!
    I dont have to show riches, To pull up, Pull of with some bad b*tches, It's about my persona, Aint nothing like a man that can do what he wanna
  • TigerspainTigerspain Forumite
    59 Posts
    Oh and a little note to the OP, If any of this information has been usefull to you (Considering we are taking time out of our day to write it) please do click the thanks button!!!!!
    I dont have to show riches, To pull up, Pull of with some bad b*tches, It's about my persona, Aint nothing like a man that can do what he wanna
  • s_bs_b Forumite
    4.5K Posts
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Hammyman wrote: »
    Sorry, utter bollox. Where do you think the heat generated in braking goes?

    And it was the locking nut that was heated to expand it. I suggest that unless you are actually a mechanic or a mechanical engineer, you keep your half-baked opinions to yourself. Heating up nuts and bolts to free them has been an accepted practice for CENTURIES.

    yes you are totally right and i am wrong
    but here is my opinion as an expert
    lets assume tracking garage use one of those calor gas type blow torches to heat up the track rod end so as to undo the locking nut and free the steering arm from the track rod end now unless it wasnt realy tight this calor bottle is going to do jack because unless you leave it on until you get the bits cherry then you are wasting your time
    now lets suppose garage use oxy aceteline to warm the same nuts up and to make an effect if they know what they are doing they will get the locking nut to cherry free it off with a spanner and then try to see if the track rod end is seized and also moving,if not where will the torch go do you think?
    now consider all this heat on the steering arm and as i say further up it may well weaken it because its built to withstand torsional stresses not heat
    if your pads got to the same heat as achievable by an oxy aceteline torch do you not think that your wheel hub would not drop into a smouldering mass of molten metal?

    give me strength


    one final thought while you have your hankerchief on your head blowing bubbles
    i had to put heat on a 10 year old corsa track rod last year and as soon as i tried turning the end off all the thread on the steering arm literally fell off
    so before you say anything else try doing the walk before you do the talk because i do do it for a living
  • astgteastgte Forumite
    44 Posts
    s_b wrote: »
    yes you are totally right and i am wrong
    but here is my opinion as an expert
    lets assume tracking garage use one of those calor gas type blow torches to heat up the track rod end so as to undo the locking nut and free the steering arm from the track rod end now unless it wasnt realy tight this calor bottle is going to do jack because unless you leave it on until you get the bits cherry then you are wasting your time
    now lets suppose garage use oxy aceteline to warm the same nuts up and to make an effect if they know what they are doing they will get the locking nut to cherry free it off with a spanner and then try to see if the track rod end is seized and also moving,if not where will the torch go do you think?
    now consider all this heat on the steering arm and as i say further up it may well weaken it because its built to withstand torsional stresses not heat
    if your pads got to the same heat as achievable by an oxy aceteline torch do you not think that your wheel hub would not drop into a smouldering mass of molten metal?

    give me strength


    one final thought while you have your hankerchief on your head blowing bubbles
    i had to put heat on a 10 year old corsa track rod last year and as soon as i tried turning the end off all the thread on the steering arm literally fell off
    so before you say anything else try doing the walk before you do the talk because i do do it for a living


    But but, it saved them thruppence:rotfl:

    As Sb says, just how does the op garage do any steering component work without basic equipment. Perhaps the ops garage done some original work as the tyres were wearing strange, perhaps they made a botch job as they couldnt get the parts off, sent the op to the tyre place to let them pick the pieces up after the hambone job they done, then tyre place gets the slag but the 'experts' who crapped the job up in the first place sit back and deny all knowledge. Just another view on it;)
This discussion has been closed.
Latest MSE News and Guides

Is your local HSBC closing?

114 branches to shut in 2023

MSE News

Advent Competitions

The countdown is on

MSE Forum

Baileys £10 for 1L at Tesco

When you scan your Clubcard

MSE Deals