Question about the Gatwick Express

SaveTheEuro

yorkie2 wrote: »

So, no need to pay more for the Gatwick Express, and if you are charged an excess fare, we can help you get your money back.

An excellent tip. Thank you.

Southern is using two websites to offer different prices on the Gatwick Express from London Victoria. An off peak single costs £18.90 on southernrailway.com and £15.95 on gatwickexpress.com.

An Off Peak Day Single for other trains between Victoria and Gatwick is £13.20. If, as you say, this ticket has to be accepted on the Gatwick Express it is outrageous that southernrailway.com show it as a valid option for only non-Gatwick Express services.

thetrainline.com are in on this too, offering only an £18.90 fare.

Is this honest and legal?

geordieracer

Maybe because gatwickexpress.com is offering an online discount if you purchase through them. Lots of TOCs do this to get you to purchase through them, they take a hit on the comission to get your loyalty and money.

SaveTheEuro

geordieracer wrote: »

Maybe because gatwickexpress.com is offering an online discount if you purchase through them. Lots of TOCs do this to get you to purchase through them, they take a hit on the comission to get your loyalty and money.

if gatwickexpress.com is owned by Southern why is the online discount not available on the southern website?

geordieracer

SaveTheEuro wrote: »

if gatwickexpress.com is owned by Southern why is the online discount not available on the southern website?

No idea why dont you ask them?

dzug1

SaveTheEuro wrote: »

if gatwickexpress.com is owned by Southern why is the online discount not available on the southern website?

Because Southern have got themselves in a right pickle (or possibly been put in a right pickle by the DfT) over the rationalisation of the Gatwick Express/Southern franchises which was pushed through ignoring the knock on effect of the conditions of carriage. Probably an example of macho management - just do it, never mind the detail.

The attempt is being made to pretend Gatwick Express is still separate.

Westin

Interesting points on Gatwick Express being run but Southern, but isn't Southern just a trading brand of GoVia who hold the franchise?

SaveTheEuro

Try to book the 1205 Gatwick Express from Gatwick to London Victoria on 1st March and the cheapest available single fare is shown as £18.90.

Change the destination to Bristol Temple Meads and the same journey (with the added extra of a tube trip across London plus train from Paddington to Bristol if you care to use it) drops to £12.

Welcome to bonkers Britain!

wealdroam

SaveTheEuro wrote: »

Try to book the 1205 Gatwick Express from Gatwick to London Victoria on 1st March and the cheapest available single fare is shown as £18.90.

Change the destination to Bristol Temple Meads and the same journey (with the added extra of a tube trip across London plus train from Paddington to Bristol if you care to use it) drops to £12.

Welcome to bonkers Britain!

Is that £12 ticket using the 1205 Gatwick express?

yorkie2

SaveTheEuro wrote: »

An excellent tip. Thank you.

You are welcome, though proceed with caution as some staff deny it!

SaveTheEuro wrote: »

Southern is using two websites to offer different prices on the Gatwick Express from London Victoria. An off peak single costs £18.90 on southernrailway.com and £15.95 on gatwickexpress.com.

This is an "Any Permitted" route ticket, valid on any operator (for example, you could change at East Croydon to FCC), there is a discount on this ticket on the Gatwick Express website (however I do not know for certain how these tickets print; if someone buys one it would be useful if they could scan it in)

SaveTheEuro wrote: »

An Off Peak Day Single for other trains between Victoria and Gatwick is £13.20. If, as you say, this ticket has to be accepted on the Gatwick Express it is outrageous that southernrailway.com show it as a valid option for only non-Gatwick Express services.

There is a ticket from London Terminals routed "Not Gatwick Express", while I believe the wording of this is illegal (under NRCoC Condition 10 they must refer to a company or companies; Gatwick Express is not a Company) I would not advise using it for obvious reasons! However there is a slightly cheaper ticket from London Victoria routed "Southern Only" - this is clearly not valid on FCC services. However NRCoC Condition 10 says it is restricted to a "Company", the company in this case is Southern... who operate the Gatwick Express!

SaveTheEuro wrote: »

Is this honest and legal?

I do not believe it is, no. I am aware some people have written to Norman Baker MP about this, there is a discussion on another forum about this (See: Southern day ticket...is there one and is it valid on gatwick express for the latest topic - out of several!)

SaveTheEuro wrote: »

if gatwickexpress.com is owned by Southern why is the online discount not available on the southern website?

Because Southern have no reason to do this, as the "Southern Only" ticket is cheaper than the "Any Permitted" ticket that you get from the Gatwickexpress.com website with the online discount.

dzug1 wrote: »

Because Southern have got themselves in a right pickle (or possibly been put in a right pickle by the DfT) over the rationalisation of the Gatwick Express/Southern franchises which was pushed through ignoring the knock on effect of the conditions of carriage. Probably an example of macho management - just do it, never mind the detail.

The attempt is being made to pretend Gatwick Express is still separate.

Indeed, that is exactly what has happened/is happening.

yorkie2

Westin wrote: »

Interesting points on Gatwick Express being run but Southern, but isn't Southern just a trading brand of GoVia who hold the franchise?

Haha, their staff like to give all sorts of untrue statements. I will give you a list of myths that they claim, and the TRUE story behind each one.

"Govia bought the Gatwick Express franchise"
Not true - the Gatwick Express franchise was abolished, and no longer exists. The new franchise is the Southern franchise. Govia is the parent company for London Midland, South Eastern and Southern. That's 3 companies. Not 4.

"Gatwick Express is no different to SouthEastern, both come under the Govia umbrella company"
Not true - Southern and SouthEastern, along with LM, are all separate entities (that's 3, not 4!), Gatwick Express is merely a route brand (along with Brighton Express), albeit a very high profile one, but it is part of the Southern franchise.

"We are allowed to charge a premium because it is express"
Not true - that is an opinion but it is not the contractual position. Many companies offer 'express' services but tickets marked as "Company Only" are still valid on all trains operated by that company - subject, of course, to any time restrictions applicable on the ticket.

"Gatwick Express is a company"
Not true - Gatwick Express Ltd (company number 02912338) was formed in 1994 and ceased trading in 2008. It is registered to National Express Limited. It has nothing to do with Govia.

"Gatwick Express operates trains"
Not true - Gatwick Express does not have a license to operate trains, in fact the Gatwick Express website says at the bottom of every page "Gatwick Express is operated by Southern"

"Gatwick Express is a Train Operating Company for the purposes of NRCoC Condition 10"
Not true - Gatwick Express is not a company (see above), does not operate trains (see above), and if further proof is required, simply ask the Department for Transport, in fact someone already has, "I confirm that neither Stansted Express nor Gatwick Express are a Train Operating Company..." - Peter Lepper, DfT


"Gatwick Express has been express for over 25 years and different ticketing complies"
Not true - Gatwick Express as a route may have existed for over 25 years but under British Rail it was a different sector, 'InterCity', then at privatisation it was a different company 'Gatwick Express Ltd', but since 2008 it has been integrated into the same company that runs all the Victoria - Gatwick direct trains!

"Gatwick Express trains have a different livery and are clearly identified as Gatwick Express and are of a higher standard to regular Southern trains"
Not true - Gatwick Express trains use the exact same type of train that operate roughly half of the off-peak Brighton Express trains, you can identify these trains in the Southern timetable by the symbol that denotes 'restricted access'. The exterior of the trains used to say "Gatwick Express" one or two may still do but they are having the word "Gatwick" removed to avoid confusion, and internally the safety & CCTV notices refer to Southern! The driver will be wearing Southern uniform, and the catering staff will also be wearing Southern uniform.

There are no checks on board the Gatwick Express any more, and instead there are barrier checks in operation. At present the barriers are usually turned off (the barriers should accept Southern Only tickets) and checks are done manually. Commuters tend to rush past at such a speed that the staff wouldn't be able to see the tiny "Southern Only" wording (it is in a very small font), but anyone who looks like a tourist may be checked more thoroughly and be told it is not valid, because "it is a different company", they will then throw the excuses above at you, for which I have provided the answers. Be warned though: give too many answers and they get very annoyed and say "this is ridiculous, stop arguing with me or I will remove you from the station".

Once the barriers are fully operational and manual checks are phased out, I doubt there will be any arguments, as I expect the barriers to simply accept the tickets.