Banks don't want my custom it seems

dunstonh

Naf wrote: »

Not something that can be orchestrated from branch level: no way you can make a cheque bounce just to get the customer back in. If the cheque did bounce, maybe an adviser could jump on the chance for a full review...

They used the "not drawn in accordance with mandate". The signatures matched and there was a joint account "either to sign" authority held. I have had this occur three times with a certain bank in the last year and in each case the people were pounced on to try and get them to use their in house sales rep.

There have also been other occurrences of this with other advisers reported on citywire or moneymarketing. In one case, a bank used "refer to drawer" when the funds were there and that is a serious issue as it can be classed as defamation of character. The comments that followed the article showed that a number of IFAs were seeing the same thing.

here is the article: http://citywire.co.uk/new-model-adviser/barclays-refused-to-release-widow-s-funds-to-adviser/a422452

Tribulation

Am I missing something here?

While I understand what your all saying, in the past, I've gone into a bank or a building society and gone up to the cashier, said I wanted to open a savers account, they've given me a form to fill in, I've gone back to the window with the form and it's been done in a matter of minutes.

It seems the more technologically advanced, the more modern, the more impersonal we get, the less helpful the average person find the banks.

It's only been in the past 10 odd years I've found opening accounts require appointments. And so far in every single case that I've experienced, the whole point of them has been simply for the bank to try to sell me something else that I don't actually want, wasting both my and their time.

No different from when they phone me up and ask me to come in and review my account, I always refuse, I made the mistake once of believing all the crap I was told on the phone, simply wasted an hour odd of my time, time that is valuable.

I do fully understand what people are saying about appointment time, but why do you need an appointment to open say a savings account, I never needed one 30 years ago. I would take in ID, pick up a form, leave the window, fill out the form, take it back to the window, they check ID, shouldn't take them hardly any more time than serving the average customer.

Then again, I'm a Natwest customer and regardless of what their adverts were saying last year, come lunch time we have 1 (or 2 if we're really lucky) staff serving and the queue is out the door and can take literally an hour to get to the front.

Edit: Totally agree with what CashCow says above, that's the real reason you cant simply do it over the counter.

Tribulation

Orpheo wrote: »

I second this.

I have opened a number of accounts online, with banks that I had no prior relationship with and they have not required presentation of ID at all. I simply had to type in my NI number.

The banks take our security seriously.

I third this.

Getting credit cards is even easier. One of my relatives had a lodger, open loads of cards in their name. While it was all sorted, it caused them untold stress, took months to sort and they are still having credit check problems.

We wondered how he could have opened them so easily

My wife was after a new credit card so I asked if I could do an experiment.

I applied online using my wife's details, all readily available, address, date of birth, stated she was self employed, made up an earnings figure (that was actually less than she earned), put myself down as a second card holder, had to tick a box to confirm electronically accepted sig, a couple of weeks later, cards dropped through the door with a £4500 credit limit.

I phoned and it was electronic activation, all I needed to know was her date of birth. That was about 2 years ago.

nilrem_2

Lokolo wrote: »

Do you really think that paying £100 a month is going make the bank roll out a red carpet for you?

In fairness the OP isn't asking for 'Red carpet treatment', the Op is just wishing to call in to a branch and open a simple bank account, something that most of us have been able to do until relatively recently.

Some banks and building societies take this to the extreme and seem to demand that one has an appointment with a financial adviser even when we are able to make our own minds up what account we want and do not wish for financial advice.

About 18 months ago I took an application form properly filled out and with a cheque for £45k to open a fixed rate bond into Santandar they refused to take it in without making an appointment to see a FA later in the week, living in the sticks and having travelled into town specially I did not wish to make a second journey or see a FA so I walked down the road to Nationwide who were delighted to accept my money on the spot without any hassle or problems.

I know it will upset some people here but why is it deemed important that we consult financial advisers rather than use our own good instincts? It was FA's who advised us to invest with Icesave and taking into account some of the awful investments that banks have made plunging them near to bankruptcy why should we trust their financial advisor's?

opinions4u

Tribulation wrote: »

I do fully understand what people are saying about appointment time, but why do you need an appointment to open say a savings account, I never needed one 30 years ago. I would take in ID, pick up a form, leave the window, fill out the form, take it back to the window, they check ID, shouldn't take them hardly any more time than serving the average customer.

The FSA. And how banks then choose to interpret their requirements.

Savings accounts (and most other bank products) can be offered in 3 ways.

1) Full advice, where the provider has to identify clear customer needs and make a specific recommendation, in a similar way to an IFA.

2) Informed choice, where the provider has to ensure that the buyer is made aware of all the options available and then respond to buyer request.

3) Non-advised, where the customer states "I want this" and the provider simply complies with the request.

Option (1) is basically too expensive to do. You would probably need to double the number of staff in branches and call centres and you also take on a clear liability for claims of mis-selling as well. Customers are unlikely to want to pay for this via a fee or lower interest rates, so it's a non-starter.

Option (3) is fine for online sales. But if a customer walks in to a bank and says "I want to put £5k in to your 2% supa easy access account" and you comply without discussion, that customer may well have missed out on the 3% supa easy access ISA issue 407 that you have on offer. Or would perhaps be better off considering some in the ISA, some in the easy access account and some in the term deposit.

So most banks provide their branch service as option (2) "informed choice". To do this, they need to be able to show the regulator documented evidence that they have provided an informed choice. A 2 minute undocumented chat with a cashier followed by completion of an application form simply doesn't cut the mustard. There's a process that needs to be followed so you need to commit time for it - if there's nobody free at the time, then other than booking an appointment (or telling you to apply online - and losing any incentive from an employer) is the only option.

Hence the need for a more time consuming chat with an "adviser". The irony of the job title given that they clearly don't advise, they simply make the customer aware!

To document that a fair and informed choice has been offered the bank needs to be able to demonstrate that they have asked appropriate questions. To do this, many have developed an online questioning process. Rather than developing a single process for each type of produce (e.g. credit card, savings account, current account, loan etc) one set of questions applies to all.

Based on the answers given, the "adviser" can then provide details of those accounts that may meet the customer's needs and the customer can then decide what to do. Inevitably this will bring out opportunities to put other products in front of customers.

So for the £5k in to the 2% easy access account the "adviser" may end up informing the customer of the following:

Easy access passbook paying 0.1%
Easy access card account paying 2.0%
Easy access online ISA account paying 3.0%
Term deposit for 3 years paying 4.0% (do you really need access to all £5k?)

The now informed customer decides a single account is enough and the cash ISA fits the bill, even though he'd known nothing about ISAs before he walked in and thought they were something to do with shares.

If this process hadn't been followed, the customer may have walked away with an account paying £80 interest after tax.

Because the "informed choice" process has been followed, the customer may well walk away with an account paying £150pa without any tax.

While the average MSE poster may have been able to work that out for themselves, the reality is that 90% of the population are either unable to or unwilling to.

While I agree that the FSA have given the banks a gold-plaited opportunity to use the system to "sell" more products, it clearly removes an opportunity for a bank to deliberately sell a low paying account.

Is it a good thing? Overall, probably. Is it perfect? No chance.

Naf

nilrem wrote: »

Some banks and building societies take this to the extreme and seem to demand that one has an appointment with a financial adviser even when we are able to make our own minds up what account we want and do not wish for financial advice.

About 18 months ago I took an application form properly filled out and with a cheque for £45k to open a fixed rate bond into Santandar they refused to take it in without making an appointment to see a FA later in the week, living in the sticks and having travelled into town specially I did not wish to make a second journey or see a FA so I walked down the road to Nationwide who were delighted to accept my money on the spot without any hassle or problems.

I know it will upset some people here but why is it deemed important that we consult financial advisers rather than use our own good instincts? It was FA's who advised us to invest with Icesave and taking into account some of the awful investments that banks have made plunging them near to bankruptcy why should we trust their financial advisor's?

opinions4u wrote: »

So most banks provide their branch service as option (2) "informed choice". To do this, they need to be able to show the regulator documented evidence that they have provided an informed choice. A 2 minute undocumented chat with a cashier followed by completion of an application form simply doesn't cut the mustard. There's a process that needs to be followed so you need to commit time for it - if there's nobody free at the time, then other than booking an appointment (or telling you to apply online - and losing any incentive from an employer) is the only option.

Hence the need for a more time consuming chat with an "adviser". The irony of the job title given that they clearly don't advise, they simply make the customer aware!

To document that a fair and informed choice has been offered the bank needs to be able to demonstrate that they have asked appropriate questions. To do this, many have developed an online questioning process. Rather than developing a single process for each type of produce (e.g. credit card, savings account, current account, loan etc) one set of questions applies to all.

Based on the answers given, the "adviser" can then provide details of those accounts that may meet the customer's needs and the customer can then decide what to do. Inevitably this will bring out opportunities to put other products in front of customers.

So for the £5k in to the 2% easy access account the "adviser" may end up informing the customer of the following:

Easy access passbook paying 0.1%
Easy access card account paying 2.0%
Easy access online ISA account paying 3.0%
Term deposit for 3 years paying 4.0% (do you really need access to all £5k?)

The now informed customer decides a single account is enough and the cash ISA fits the bill, even though he'd known nothing about ISAs before he walked in and thought they were something to do with shares.

If this process hadn't been followed, the customer may have walked away with an account paying £80 interest after tax.

Because the "informed choice" process has been followed, the customer may well walk away with an account paying £150pa without any tax.

While the average MSE poster may have been able to work that out for themselves, the reality is that 90% of the population are either unable to or unwilling to.

While I agree that the FSA have given the banks a gold-plaited opportunity to use the system to "sell" more products, it clearly removes an opportunity for a bank to deliberately sell a low paying account.

Is it a good thing? Overall, probably. Is it perfect? No chance.

Yes and no...
For some accounts; where there is seen to be a high risk that a customer could be disadvantaged if all options and details of an account are not made clear, and particular regulatory requirements need to be met; its is vital that they see an adviser, but even after being given advice/info the 'non advised' option is still available if the customer wants to go ahead with just their own decision. This primarily applies to Premier Current accounts (monthly fees), Credit Cards, insurance products, mortgages and stocks and shares investments. Doesn't generally apply to simply bank accounts, savings accounts or savings bonds.
The main reason I suspect you may have been turned away at the Santander branch would be that the opening of an account can only be done by the advisers (this as a result of the regulations), and copies of ID need to be taken, and verified by management. (ID is required both as new and existing customer, but for different reasons: new accounts need to verify that the person who's details are being entered on the system exists and is alive and eligible for the account [Anti Money Laundering regulations], then it needs to be verified that the person sitting with the adviser and signing the form is the person who the account is being opened for [impersonation check]. Existing customers just need to verify they are the person they claim to be [impersonation check]). Either way just a form filled in and dropped at reception does not fill these requirements.
Plus, if all of their appointment slots are taken for the day already, when are they going to be able to process the application; it still takes almost as long as the appointment would anyway.

planemad

I think its a shambles if the OP went into 5 institutions and could not open a "bread and butter" savings account
It makes no odds how much the OP is going to save its about providing a service with the hope that the OP can remain a customer for many years to come and invest a fair sum of money in that period.

I bet nowhere in the T&Cs that opening an account cannot be done on a Saturday, yet another case of poor service from the banking sector.
Its not the OPs fault that the branches are lightly staffed.

A few years ago you could walk into branch to discuss accounts and make a choice and the clerk would sort it out for you.
Now they all seem to want to book for financial reviews.

ses6jwg

planemad wrote: »

I think its a shambles if the OP went into 5 institutions and could not open a "bread and butter" savings account
It makes no odds how much the OP is going to save its about providing a service with the hope that the OP can remain a customer for many years to come and invest a fair sum of money in that period.

I bet nowhere in the T&Cs that opening an account cannot be done on a Saturday, yet another case of poor service from the banking sector.
Its not the OPs fault that the branches are lightly staffed.

A few years ago you could walk into branch to discuss accounts and make a choice and the clerk would sort it out for you.
Now they all seem to want to book for financial reviews.

Because they are told to do this or they are out the door.

Banks now are little more than shops offering different products to attract and retain business. The job of bank staff is to sell and up-sell.

Aegis

planemad wrote: »

I think its a shambles if the OP went into 5 institutions and could not open a "bread and butter" savings account
It makes no odds how much the OP is going to save its about providing a service with the hope that the OP can remain a customer for many years to come and invest a fair sum of money in that period.

I bet nowhere in the T&Cs that opening an account cannot be done on a Saturday, yet another case of poor service from the banking sector.
Its not the OPs fault that the branches are lightly staffed.

A few years ago you could walk into branch to discuss accounts and make a choice and the clerk would sort it out for you.
Now they all seem to want to book for financial reviews.

Surely it's a different situation altogether. A few years ago you would be charged for having an account with a bank, and with those charges the banks could afford much larger headcounts, therefore seeing people at short (or no) notice was perfectly feasible.

The situation now is that there are a lot more regulations to adhere to, accounts are generally provided free of charge (as long as you stay in credit) and the margins on most banking products are forced to be much tighter because of increased access to information for consumers. As such you can't really compare what happened in the past to what happens now.

Since opening my student account in 2000, I've never been able to simply walk into a branch whenever I like and do things immediately. There's always either been a wait or an appointment system, which is one reason I prefer to do as much as I can online.

Naf

planemad wrote: »

I think its a shambles if the OP went into 5 institutions and could not open a "bread and butter" savings account
It makes no odds how much the OP is going to save its about providing a service with the hope that the OP can remain a customer for many years to come and invest a fair sum of money in that period.

Indeed you are right, unfortunately no staff were available. I went into Barclays to open a current account, nobody was available for me either. Luck of the draw.

planemad wrote: »

I bet nowhere in the T&Cs that opening an account cannot be done on a Saturday, yet another case of poor service from the banking sector.

Nobody ever said anything regarding T&Cs preventing this being done on a Saturday. There were just no staff available.

planemad wrote: »

Its not the OPs fault that the branches are lightly staffed.

You are quite right, nobody suggested it was. Unfortunately, the more people want to get for nothing, the more ways of saving money businesses have to find. Staffing is the biggest expense any institution has.

planemad wrote: »

A few years ago you could walk into branch to discuss accounts and make a choice and the clerk would sort it out for you.
Now they all seem to want to book for financial reviews.

Any branch of any bank will be more than happy to sit an available adviser with you as a customer/potential customer to discuss accounts, allow you to make an informed decision and proceed to open the account for you. But there has to be a person available to do this first.

Did you read a single post in this thread?

The OP was offered an appointment, unfortunately those available didn't suit their personal circumstances. These things happen. You make an appointment at the doctors, the dentist, hospital, hairdressers, solicitors. You book a table at a restaurant, book tickets for the cinema, and for most other things you call ahead to check if anyone will be free to see you. Why is your bank any different? All the other services I listed are also businesses; just because we have an NHS that pays their profits for us doesn't make them less commercial. And if they have someone free when we arrive without an appointment they will see us, but sometimes we get disappointed when there isn't and we have to make an appointment for another day. Its just how it works.

Sorry to say it, OP, but I actually think your original point is pretty much nonsense; nobody being free to open your account for you, especially on a Saturday, isn't poor service at all. You have every right to feel disappointed that you couldn't get what you wanted done when you wanted, but not to feel this is in some way the fault of any of the banks you visited.

As to nilrem's point when they tried to open an account with a filled in application form; I'm going back to my doctor's analogy...
Do you turn up with a filled in prescription form for them to sign so you can just toddle off and collect whatever drug you fancy? They have a duty to ensure you receive the right treatment, maybe sometimes you do know what's best and good for you; but the same doctor could prescribe different drugs to people with the same condition, depending on their general health, other medication, age, allergies... Perhaps you had chosen the right account for yourself, and I'm in no way suggesting you hadn't, but as a bank if they just opened whatever you asked for and it turned out that something else would have been better for you; there needs to be some notes signed to say you have heard about the other product and opted not to take it. Otherwise you could come back in a year or however long and would have a claim that you were disadvantaged. And believe me, this happens.