Working extra hours unpaid - what to do?

Mrs_Arcanum

She needs to see if she can negotiate more flexible hours. Either finishing early or starting later/finishing later. They will know she is working the hours and will take advantage. If she doesn't ask for more flexible time they have no reason to allow any flexibility. She should also be very careful to go armed with all the advantages she as an individual brings to the company and the benefit to the company of letting her have more flexible working.

Where her colleagues live has no relevance and should not be mentioned. It is not the company who provides accommodation. Nor for that matter is her race or gender the issue (unless it can be proved otherwise).

LittleVoice

Mischa8 wrote: »

. . .
The main point is she'd love not to be able to work like a dog on those hours eg unpaid but of course she doesn't want to risk her appraisal being pulled up over that. And her appraisals otherwise have been PERFECT. In fact exemplary from what she tells us. She has even been given the option to work from home sometimes but she prefers to work in the office when she can.

So what are her options? and would race/sex come into it and if so what to do? refer to her employment T&C, manual etc?

thanks.

Her option is to continue as she is doing - which doesn't sound like "working like a dog" to me (but that's just my opinion) - or work strict hours and probably be over-looked for future career progression.

If she is travelling around the country to different sites, surely getting to her regular office doesn't happen 5 days a week in any case. In fact it is that which makes not taking up the offer of working from home on occasions as understandable in that she wants to maintain contact with office colleagues on a face-to-face basis.

Mischa8

I WILL NOT be asking for any further help on this topic. It does make me annoyed that some people seem to automatically assume that I am playing some sort of race/sex card when I am not.

I will tell my friend what she knows already that she'll just have to get to work on time and whether that be starting earlier and doing extra work in that time so be it.

I will also suggest her (I am sure she knows this) that she *does* work from home more, why not??

It does not help (and I forgot to mention this) that until about a year ago - the manager and her equal standing colleague worked with her in a bank of 3 desks and the manager and other colleague appeared to have a *very close* friendship with a bit of brown-nosing happening on behalf of the colleague. However, I can't remember if my friend complained about it or not but now they're separated or placed in a way to be equal footing and the manager is more fair towards them both.

I think this is maybe where I originally thought there could be some sort of card or unfairnes being played out. But this has been sorted and like most of you say she just needs to work her hours and move when the job market is better.

Anyway THANKS to all of you for your input.

:T

Mischa8

Mrs_Arcanum wrote: »

She needs to see if she can negotiate more flexible hours. Either finishing early or starting later/finishing later. They will know she is working the hours and will take advantage. If she doesn't ask for more flexible time they have no reason to allow any flexibility. She should also be very careful to go armed with all the advantages she as an individual brings to the company and the benefit to the company of letting her have more flexible working.

Where her colleagues live has no relevance and should not be mentioned. It is not the company who provides accommodation. Nor for that matter is her race or gender the issue (unless it can be proved otherwise).

Thank you thank you thank you to SOMEONE who can see what I mean about negotiating more flexible hours!!! I will tell her to maybe bring up the points carefully you raised in your first para. Thanks again.:A

Mischa8

LittleVoice wrote: »

Her option is to continue as she is doing - which doesn't sound like "working like a dog" to me (but that's just my opinion) - or work strict hours and probably be over-looked for future career progression.

If she is travelling around the country to different sites, surely getting to her regular office doesn't happen 5 days a week in any case. In fact it is that which makes not taking up the offer of working from home on occasions as understandable in that she wants to maintain contact with office colleagues on a face-to-face basis.

You've got in one Little Voice. Yes, because as and when she does work away on site, that is precisely why she doesn't like to work from home a lot - so that she keeps contact with her office colleagues face to face and is available for all meetings etc.

Her working hours I really don't know the full ins and outs but she does take work home on an evening basis quite regularly, I think me stating she "works like a dog" was a bit OTT.

Also AFAIK especially now, she is not THAT happy in her current company and would love to move but this means she has also progressed in auditing. I don't know her future career plans, TBH she seems happy at the level she is now, but I don't know if she really wants to aim higher again in the future.

eschaton

Mischa8 wrote: »

I was wondering though (even though she hasn't mentioned this) - she's black and female - how much of this may be targeted towards her due to her sex and her race? Would this happen? She *is* in a very male dominated environment and predominantly (I'd guess) white environment.

Mischa8 wrote: »

I WILL NOT be asking for any further help on this topic. It does make me annoyed that some people seem to automatically assume that I am playing some sort of race/sex card when I am not.

No need to be annoyed with yourself.

Surely your last post was some kind of joke? :rotfl:

SarEl

Mischa8 wrote: »

I did not say she was texting or using the internet during work hours!!! AFAIK she is actually texting or internetting during her lunch break IF she takes one. No you did not say she was - yopu said that she wasn't, in a way that suggested that she deserved a prize for it.

She has just asked if sometimes she can start work later or maybe start say at 9.30 or 9.15am and finish much later?? She has asked, they have said no. What further discussion is necessary? She knows her work hours and she has always known them - what is to complain of. Not all employers operate flexitime, and there is no automatic right to it simplt because you want it.

What ON EARTH is wrong about that?? See above she gets AFAIK exemplary appraisals, DOES ALL HER WORK ON TIME and over and above it. Indeed. I read that. But that does not mean she has the right to be late for work.

I really don't know how some people here GET OFF by trying to attack someone who is simply asking for help. Nobody is attacking you or her. They are telling you to get real and not see issues where there is none. Being female or black does not entitle you to be late for work.

And sad to say but YES in the past and EVEN now employers do slyly pull the race and sexism cards but do it in such a way that it can't be detected easily. You'd have to be really naive and silly not to realise that. Yes, employers do. But this employer isn't. If she wants to improve her appraisals she needs to be on time for work. How she does that is her concern and not her employers

It's really strange how personally people take honest advice from lots of posters here when they are just asking for a friend, and could be objective - since the point of advice is to give you / your firend an honest answer and not the one you want.

I am afraid that you / your friend live in a very comfortable world if you think that being expected to be on time for work is appalling behaviour on the part of an employer. And if this is the sort of attitude that the employer has been approached with, then it may also perhaps explain why they are unwilling to negotiate.

When I go into court, I do not turn up late because if I do my client and my judge tend to get really stroppy about it. I work very long hours, into the weekend and evenings, routinely, and in between I take a "busman's holiday" giving pro-bono legal advice and advice here and elsewhere. I don't consider it a dog's life because my career is my choice and my work is my choice - and possibly also because my dog spends most of this life sleeping, so it isn't really a comparison!

Your friend has choices here - she doesn't have to start early, work through her lunch, or anything else. Those are her choices and she can choose to stop. But how on earth you can get from "her employer expects employees to be on time for work" to race and sex discrimination is beyond me. I can imagine what a judge would have made of "sorry, you can't tell me off for being late because it's parental discrimination, sex discrimination, or whatever".

Googlewhacker

Most people would have asked what they could do about the situation without mentioning that she is black or female.

She can negotiate flexible hours but they can refuse.

getmore4less

WHy not just look outside, oh look heavy snow work from home day.

Same with traffic check if there are any holdups, if it looks like there might be work from home.

The really really stupid thing with this query is the we are talking about 1/2 hour here and there extra work , but she is happy to sit in a car for 30-40 mins each way when they have said she does not have too.

DCFC79

The key is to get to work on time which is 9 unless of course flexibe working has been agreed,