Cheap but good cat food?

Fire_Fox

GlynD wrote: »

There is essentially nothing wrong with feeding a cat dry food only. It is manufactured specially to give them everything they need. Given the choice though, cats will east a variety of things. (including grass, which is good for them). Cats, like humans, can get bored if they're only fed one thing. They like a variation. Be careful on the sugar thing though. Cat's can't taste sugar so they will eat it and it is very bad for their teeth and gums.

You can fit a lot of misinformation into one post, kudos! Any dentist will tell you grains contribute to dental caries, and cats CAN taste sweetness that is why anti-freeze is so palatable. Grass is not nutritious for a feline, they cannot digest it any more than humans can.

Most dry foods don't give a feline everything they need, they are tested over a few months to ensure they don't kill or seriously harm cats NOT to supply optimum nutrition for a lifetime. Obligate carnivores physiologically and anatomically evolved to need meat - including bone, skin and offal - yet many dry diets are only 4% meat the remainder is plant based.

How long would you be prepared to feed your child nothing but peanut butter sandwiches, cows milk and a vitamin pill if a health professional advised you it was safe? What about convenience food? Given the choice I am sure your child would eat a variety of things - McDonalds, KFC.

GlynD wrote: »

That is only one school of thought. Many people feed their cats only dry food without any detrimental effects. I like to think of us owners (sorry - staff) who feed a variety being "enlightened".

Nothing wrong with spoiling your bundles of fluff - and I think it's healthier.

Thinking something does not make it fact! Health professionals advised humans to keep treats to under 10% of caloric intake - treats being an overemphasis on macronutrients in addition to an underemphasis on micronutrients. Given felines have no RDA for carbohydrates, foods containing high levels of grain fillers can arguably be labelled treats.

Many people smoke cigarettes and don't have any diagnosed smoking-related medical conditions, yet tobacco has a 50% success (=death) rate. Being asymptomatic does not prove you are healthy, as you are excluding signs. Unless you have given those cats a FULL health screen (bloodwork, x-rays, dental exam, stool/ urine samples, ultrasound, ECG...) you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

GlynD wrote: »

No they're not. The requirements for all cats, whilst simple choices, are different. You only get to know what each cat likes (from the healthy options already mooted) through experience.

You are muddling nutrition science with dietetics. See the book I linked to above, this is the text veterinarians and pet food manufacturers should be using. The basic requirements for a healthy animal are identical as the domestic feline is a single species, with adjustments for weight and activity levels only. Some cats digest grains better than others - EXACTLY the same biological process as a human child being lactose intolerant. This is a dietetic issue not a nutritional one.

paddypaws101

Welcome back FireFox!!!

Fire_Fox

lozzybeast wrote: »

This is a completely uneducated statement. What is this based on? There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding a complete dried food with fresh water always available, unless your cat has a health problem that indicates otherwise.

Many of the suggestions on here are well meaning, but not actually correct, I appreciate they may come from your own experience of owning a pet but they cannot be applied to the species as a whole, and people are giving advice on here that isn't really beneficial.

Prevention is at least as important as treatment or cure - I work in lifestyle healthcare (human) so I know exactly how critical healthy eating is. The link between carbohydrate intake and obesity, carbs and dental caries, fluctuating blood sugar and type 2 diabetes, alkalinity/ acidity/ dehydration and some urinary conditions is established in veterinary medicine.

If you add common sense into the mix, it's completely illogical that a 4% meat, cooked dry diet could supply an obligate carnivore with the same nutrients as raw freshly killed whole rodents and birds. After all no reputable NHS dietician would suggest a multi-vitamin, mineral and a bowl of Kelloggs is a substitute for nine portions a day of fruits and vegetables, oily fish plus wholegrains.

Given their track records on powdered baby milk, cosmetic animal testing and confectionery pushing, I'd suggest the big players are more interested in profit margins than human health, optimum nutrition, animal welfare, protein bioavailability or the conversion rate of short to long chain omega-3. I am referring to Nestle-Purina (Go Cat, Felix), Mars (Royal Canin, Whiskas, James Wellbeloved), Proctor & Gamble (IAMS, Eukanuba) and Colgate-Palmolive (Hills Science).

Interestingly Hills sell dry, grain laden foods to treat the very conditions dry, grain laden foods helped trigger, whilst RC seem to be under the impression different breeds of the same species require different formulations. I would have field day at one of their unbiased nutrition training sessions. :rotfl:

pinkcandyflossprincess wrote: »

i think the problem lies within there- a lot of people think price equals quality which isnt the case as in most things in life!:o
cat therapists will recommend a dry diet suitable to a cats nutritional , health needs and because it is easier to incorporate into cat food hunting games. Im not saying that is the right way , personally i think a more natural diet would be brilliant and more beneficial. im sure by mixing chicken, rice, and carrots for example wouldnt work out that expensive if bought in bulk.
my cats are fortunate in the fact i have a large family so i do tend to cook more chicken, fish etc from scatch so they will get a meal out of what im cooking also along with a wet/dry mix. this costs me nothing extra as its just 2 extra portions that would have been on our plate otherwise. I found i can get a sunday dinner of chicken, brocolli roast potatoes etc for £5 at aldi- this feeds me the oh, 5 children, 2 cats, 8 lovebirds and a cockatiel!

Cats need raw heart and dark meat for taurine, the skin of land animals for saturated fat, raw bone for minerals, but they have no nutritional requirement for carbs from rice or potatoes, broccoli, carrots and fish are not natural prey for a cat. It's great to want to give your animals home-prepared meals but please do some research, the occasional tidbit is fine but as soon as you add this to a complete food on a regular basis the diet is no longer balanced. In the case of saturated and unsaturated fats and of phosphorus and calcium the ratio of one to another is critical.

snowleopard61 wrote: »

Does anyone else use this? I have always done so (the dry version, normally without supplementing it with wet food) as it's what my vet recommends. Two of my three cats are now on the C/D version for urinary problems in the past (although, touch wood, these haven't recurred for a long time); the other has recently started 'VetEssentials', which she loves, because she didn't seem to particularly like the standard Hill's adult food and didn't eat enough. I normally buy all the food from my vet because I don't drive (a big moneysaver in itself) and they have a free delivery service, but would be keen to find a discounted source if anyone knows a trustworthy online one that delivers. I have a feeling VetEssentials may not be available elsewhere though?

Some of the Hills dry food variants are decent quality, around 50% meat with only a handful higher (Applaws Orijen are both 80%). I wouldn't touch the diet dry nor the standard pouches with a bargepole tho as they represent poor value for money IMO.

Which food is right for a cat with renal/ urinary tract issues depends on what the specific condition is. Some need an acidic diet, some a wet diet, some a low phosphorus diet ... I highly recommend using Purrsinourhearts forums for pointers on diagnosed medical conditions and diet treatments, because many experienced rescuers post. Their shop is excellent and all profits go to charity.

There are several online pet retailers that offer free delivery on an order of £29+ and periodic three-for-two offers, for example Zooplus, Seapets, Mutley & Mog. The veterinary formulas are available from online vet suppliers such as VetUK.

SadBunny

paddypaws101 wrote: »

Better still, I can recommend Natural Instincts raw cat food....all meat as nature intended!
http://www.mobilepetfoods.co.uk/product.php/2029/25

I used to buy some of that raw stuff in a garden centre.
Sadly your link doesn't cover my post code.

My dog used to wait patiently for the cat to finish growling through a chicken wing, before he could eat his food.
If he attempted to eat another piece a few feet away, the cat would be furious and drive him off.
Of course the darling dog cleaned everything up.
After we lost him, I used to clear away the cat's leftovers and take them a distance away for the foxes.

Now I am getting used to less space - both inside and out.
I will have to squeeze in a freezer - then I can freeze any raw leftovers until disposal day.
I don't yet know what is available locally - barfpetfoods deliver anywhere in mainland UK for 9.99 (My pound key not working)

Also : "Certain parasites, like toxoplasmosis, that get into muscle meat can make your pet sick, which is why you should freeze raw meats for three days before feeding them to your dog or cat."
Dr. Karen Becker

SadBunny

Lots of useful links here such as : RAW FEEDING "How Much To Feed" CALCULATOR

Raw Feeding FAQ

I found the Myths section enlightening.

Importance of Wet Food versus Convenience of Dry Food - in case anyone still isn't conviced!

Very impressed by Fire Fox's knowledge and way of clearly presenting the facts.

Can I ask - I've read that some brown rice can be added to a dog's food if he needs more fibre . . . but is the same true for a cat?

"Uncooked lamb carved off the leg, mixed with boiled rice. A perfect 'pilaf' for both pooches and cats" - barfpetfoods.

Have they just added the rice to make the cat's food more appealing to humans?

Fire_Fox

SadBunny wrote: »

Very impressed by Fire Fox's knowledge and way of clearly presenting the facts.

Can I ask - I've read that some brown rice can be added to a dog's food if he needs more fibre . . . but is the same true for a cat?

"Uncooked lamb carved off the leg, mixed with boiled rice. A perfect 'pilaf' for both pooches and cats" - barfpetfoods.

Have they just added the rice to make the cat's food more appealing to humans?

Thank you, I 'cheated' by working in and studying human healthcare.

Felines are obligate carnivores, canines are carnivores/ omnivores (note the lack of the word obligate) - as I understand it dogs have evolved to be more versatile in what they can extract nutrients from and what they can convert to a useable format. However I know far more about cats than dogs, simply because that is what I have taken the time to research.

Grains are added to cat and dog food because they are massively cheaper than meat. It's more what the food looks (formed chunks of derivatives in jelly, kibble dyed 'carrot' orange and 'pea' green) and smells like that is designed to appeal to us. The advertising is then designed around the formulation to guilt trip humans - Go Cat adverts intimate that their 4% meat food is eaten by healthy and energetic cats. Isn't it Whiskas that has pictures of peas and carrots on the pack, even tho the pieces are contain 4% veg? :rotfl:

Healthy cats have no nutritional requirement for carbohydrates, and fibre is a carbohydrate. I think most homemade BARF recipes for canines include vegetables which provide fibre as well as vitamins. If I gave my (imaginary) dog rice it would be brown basmati because of the lower glycaemic index. My first question would be: does the dog need extra fibre and, if so, why? Does the nutrition text say so or do they have a health condition? If they need a bulking agent is wholegrain rice the best source?

It's nonsensical to claim muscle meat plus rice is perfect, it's not a nutritionally balanced meal for a cat - no offal and no bone for a start. The company are being deliberately misleading OR they are ill-informed, either way that company would not be first on my list. If the rice is not wholegrain then there is no fibre and no minerals, you may as well add sugar to the meal as it will behave much the same in the body.

Have you read this on the BARFpetfoods site? Doesn't really seem to fit with the inclusion of cooked rice nor with the puppy feeding guidelines. I thought that way of feeding growing pups went out with the ark. :huh:

Anacrusis

I haven't read all replies so sorry if I'm repeating anything.

All wet cat (and dog) food in tins that I've looked at contains 4% meat/meat derivatives although fish varities also have 4% fish derivatives. Now I know dogs can eat veg (and even be completely vegatarian) but I'm not so sure such a low meat diet is good for cats?

I give my cats Applaws(80% meat), www.zooplus.co.uk had an offer recently for two huge bags for about £65. One bag lasts my two cats about 6 weeks. I also give them any leftover meat from meal times and tinned tuna in spring water (I buy it when it's on offer!)

amszephyr

925dancer wrote: »

I highly recommend Animonda Carny and Bozita, both available form Zooplus. Work out the cost per meal and you will see it's very economical and due to the higher protein content, will keep puss fuller for longer.

Another vote for Bozita - my two adore it, it comes in a wide range of flavours and cost-wise it is excellent, since you don't need to feed lots of it. If you're able to, buy the huge packs from Zooplus (once you're sure your cats like it!) because that works out even better value.

paddypaws101

Anacrusis wrote: »

I haven't read all replies so sorry if I'm repeating anything.

All wet cat (and dog) food in tins that I've looked at contains 4% meat/meat derivatives although fish varities also have 4% fish derivatives. Now I know dogs can eat veg (and even be completely vegatarian) but I'm not so sure such a low meat diet is good for cats?

The 4% meat is only the NAMED flavour, and is the declared minimum NOT the actual meat content which will be considerably higher.
Tinned tuna should only be an occasional treat for a cat, not a mainstay of the diet.

SadBunny

Fire_Fox wrote: »

... nor with the puppy feeding guidelines. I thought that way of feeding growing pups went out with the ark. :huh:

"Rice pudding, 1 teaspoon of honey" ? :shocked:

:think: Leave out the puppy meal and chicken - then I could happily eat that!
Eeeoow - not tinned rice pudding though.

I've addled my brain looking at it all - it used to seem so simple.

Thanks for confirming that the rice is wrong - thought I was losing it.