Useless agents made a mistake in tenancy agreement

sequence

elvis86 wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't understand this?

We have a 12 month tenancy agreement with a 2 month break clause. Each year, the agents contact us a couple of months prior to the expiry of our current agreement and ask us to confirm whether we wish to renew.

By law, once the contract expires, it becomes a statutory periodic agreement where the landlord has to give two months notice and you have to give 1 month. By signing the contract, you've bartered a worse deal than if you'd done nothing (assuming the break clause is even sided).

Next time don't sign and don't pay!

elvis86

princeofpounds wrote: »

Yes it's called a statutory periodic tenancy. You switch over as soon as your fixed term runs out, under law. It is the same as your pre-existing tenancy in all respects except to the terms related to duration and notice. LL must give you 2 rental periods' notice to leave, you must give one.

LLs sometimes don't like this insecurity and insist on another fixed term or nothing, but most are happy to leave a paying tenant in place, perhaps with a rental revision via S13 notice. After all, if you are worried about someone leaving then if you make them leave you just create the circumstance you were afraid of in the first place!

Sometimes LAs issue S21 notices without the consent of LL in order to force people into renewals they then charge for.

No-one can turf you out at will. It requires a court hearing even if an S21 notice issued - all an S21 effectively is is a warning that the LL may go to court to terminate a tenancy. It has no power in itself.

And serving S21s early can often make them become invalid - wrong dates, deposit not protected when served, not clearly dated after contract etc.

As for viewings, you can refuse them. You have a right to quiet enjoyment.

Why are letting agents allowed to write these things into contracts, if the law dictates that they are unenforceable?

I'm not particularly well up on these things, but it makes me so mad!:mad: In the 3 years I've been renting, all I've found time after time, is that the landlord invariably has the upper hand, and that contracts and even the law (when I've researched it through CAB website etc) is written in such a vague way that it's very difficult for a tenant to hold a landlord to account on their responsibilities (use of the term "reasonable" is a classic).

And yet, as a tenant, there are countless ways that you seem to get fleeced. eg Being left for weeks without appliances (I wouldn't have chosen to rent an apartment with no washing machine, so why the hell should I pay top whack to live without one for 6 weeks?!). Making you sign your inventory at the letting office before you can get the keys and set foot in the apartment, when suprisingly, you disover that some stuff is missing and everything is not in "excellent condition" as stated. Attempting to make unfair deductions from your deposit for things which should blatantly be covered under "reasonable" wear and tear, knowing that the process of raising an objection is co complicated most won't bother).

Maybe I've just had a bad experience with my letting agents?:(

tbs624

Werdnal wrote: »

Regarding renewing, you do not have to sign a new contract every year to remain in the property. Once the existing fixed term contract has expired, you automatically get a periodic tenancy, with all the terms still in place, except you only have to give 1 month's notice to leave.

....and the LL must give the T two months' notice, with notice from either party lining up with the correct end date, unless agreed otherwise. Eg, if the Fixed Term ends on the 15th of a month each subsequent tenancy period runs from 16th to 15th of the month, regardless of when rent due date is ( assuming rent paidf monthly)

Werdnal wrote: »

However, many LLs like the security of having you tied in for another fixed term, and it gives them the opportunity to make revisions to the rent when you sign the new contract - or not in your case LOL!

Rent can be increased via a S13 Notice for a stat periodic.

Werdnal

elvis86 wrote: »

Our tenancy agreement actually states that the tenant must provide confirmation of their intention to renew 2 months prior to the expiration of the current agreement, and that if we don't do so by the time expiration is a month away, it is assumed that we wish to vacate the property and must permit viewings to take place.

We are issued with a Notice Requiring Posession when we sign our contract, presumably this is done so the landlord can turf us out at will?:cool: Well, with 2 months notice as stated in our agreemnts (it says that either party can give 2 months notice at any time to end the agreement).

They cannot force you out. I am fairly sure the minimum tenancy under law is 6 months from signing of the agreement, so regardless of what the TA stated, the 2 month break clause would be invalid within the 1st 6 months anyway.

The S21 Notice is only notice that LL is seeking possession, and in fact, a tenant can stay there until he gets a court order to evict them. This can take months!

You also can refuse viewings, and even refuse your LL access to the premises at all, whilst you have a valid tenancy agreement. However, as you would probably need a reference for the next LL, this may work against you.

Werdnal

[QUOTE=tbs624;43885724Rent_can_be_increased_via_a_S13_Notice_for_a_stat_periodic.[/QUOTE]


Yes I do know this, but by rolling it into a contract renewal, the LA can charge for it too!

Werdnal

Elvis86

As you mentioned unfair deposit deductions, just wanted to point out that if your LA is as dumb as they sound, has your deposit been protected and have you been given the prescribed information from the deposit scheme they used?

When you leave the property, you should be able to challenge any deductions though the deposit scheme, to prevent being fleeced for things that are not relevant.

tbs624

elvis86 wrote: »

Our tenancy agreement actually states that the tenant must provide confirmation of their intention to renew 2 months prior to the expiration of the current agreement, and that if we don't do so by the time expiration is a month away, it is assumed that we wish to vacate the property and must permit viewings to take place.

Much though your LA would clearly like it to be otherwise, as the others have said, once the Fixed Term of your tenancy has expired a stat periodic agreement comes into force, courtesy of the Housing Act 1988, if

(a) T remains in situ
(b) no new FT agreement has been signed


It requires no action from an LA for that stat periodic to come into force, although it's not unknown for LAs to try fleecing a T for a letter stating "you are now under a stat periodic"

elvis86 wrote: »

We are issued with a Notice Requiring Posession when we sign our contract, presumably this is done so the landlord can turf us out at will?:cool: ..

Intelligent LLs leave serving of a S21 until a day or so after the signing of any tenancy agreement so that there can be no doubt that it was in fact issued *after* the tenancy agreement was signed, and it must also be served *after* the scheme registration of any tenancy deposit.

No training, qualifications or expertise needed to set up in business as an LA.

elvis86

Werdnal wrote: »

Elvis86

As you mentioned unfair deposit deductions, just wanted to point out that if your LA is as dumb as they sound, has your deposit been protected and have you been given the prescribed information from the deposit scheme they used?

When you leave the property, you should be able to challenge any deductions though the deposit scheme, to prevent being fleeced for things that are not relevant.

We've been advised that our depoist is registered with DPS and given a reference number (I think it was registered with TDS before, then we received notification a few months back that it had been moved). I presume this means we're okay, though I did hear a horror story the other day, where a deposit scheme provided reference numbers prior to the LA actually depositing the funds, so someone who had been advised that their deposit was safe later discovered that the LA (who had gone bust) had robbed off with it. I hope criminal charges were brought against someone for that, it's fraud, surely?!

This is actually the second property I've rented through these agents (glutton for punishment, I know, but they seem to dominate the local market and our current flat was perfect for us).

They attempted to withhold part of our deposit when we moved out of our last apartment. There were actually a couple of things which we half-expected to be billed for and would've accepted (eg a scuffed wall and a broken drawer), but they never mentioned these and instead tried to bill us for cleaning. We felt that this was totally unreasonable as we'd spent 2 days cleaning the place (if a landlord wants a deep clean prior to new tenants moving in, I feel that he should foot the bill for this, as with a fresh coat of paint etc). We actually suspected that this was just another money-making scam for the LA who wouldn't actually bother to employ a cleaning company and just pocket the money for themselves. We knew that they had tenants moving in the day after we moved out, thus leaving very little time for a cleaning company to come in.:cool:

Luckily, their incompetence caught them out, and after a strongly worded letter explaining that they'd breached some legislation (if I recall, they legally had 10 days to notify us of deductions and actually waited about 3 weeks), we eventually got our deposit refunded in full.:T

I'm fully expecting similar problems when we move out this time, but I'm going to try and be smarter and insist on a proper check-out at the apartment (as I mentioned earlier, the way they have worked in the past is for us to sign an inventory at their office before we could get the keys to the place, and to drop the keys off on the day we move out for them to carry out an inspection in our absence days later). As soon as we got the keys this time, we went through the inventory and amended it to reflect the fact that stuff was missing/not in "excellent condition", and faxed this amended inventory to them within 24 hours retaining a receipt. Hopefully that will cover us.

It's awful to feel that you have to be like that, though. Wanting to pay a fair price for somewhere decent to live isn't a crime, after all...

poppysarah

elvis86 wrote: »

Why are letting agents allowed to write these things into contracts, if the law dictates that they are unenforceable?

Unless they are challenged many LA get away with all sorts of horrid tricks.

There's no regulation required and any monkey can set up as a LA.

tbs624

OP - google "mydeposits" and "Landlord's guide to fair wear and tear". Although this is not the deposit scheme used by your LL the info is still relevant. Your obligation is to return a property in the same condition as when originally let to you, save for that fair wear and tear. LL cannot seek "betterment", using the Ts deposit monies as a sort of "new for old" insurance policy.

Whenever moving in or out of property take very detailed photos of everything, including meter readings: this should be done even if you walk round on a check-in/out with the LA/LL. Those photos should include tops of shelves, inside cupboards and white goods, inside of bath, basin and down lavvy bowl etc, plus any outside area.