Car died - update... Still dead!

skiddlydiddly

Remove the relay for the fue pump.Take a spark plug out with the lead still attached-I hold them with rubber covered pliers when doing this just in case.Touch the plug to an earthing point on the car(anywhere where there is a good sized captive bolt) and see if it sparks whilst someone else turns the car over.Repeat this for the rest of the plugs.This way you can narrow it down to a specific plug or lead being faulty.Even better is to use a known good plug then you can just use the same plug with each HT lead and don't need to mess about.

If you are getting a spark on each plug then it is probably what Hammyman said originally and that the starter isn't engaging.If the ring gear has gone it can make some horrible screechy/grindy noises when you try to start it.

katebl

skiddlydiddly wrote: »

Remove the relay for the fue pump.Take a spark plug out with the lead still attached-I hold them with rubber covered pliers when doing this just in case.Touch the plug to an earthing point on the car(anywhere where there is a good sized captive bolt) and see if it sparks whilst someone else turns the car over.Repeat this for the rest of the plugs.This way you can narrow it down to a specific plug or lead being faulty.Even better is to use a known good plug then you can just use the same plug with each HT lead and don't need to mess about.

If you are getting a spark on each plug then it is probably what Hammyman said originally and that the starter isn't engaging.If the ring gear has gone it can make some horrible screechy/grindy noises when you try to start it.

No screeching noises, the guy did test one plug but not all - worth checking the rest then I'm guessing? He didn't remove the fuel pump fuse, does this make a difference? Thankyou...

epninety

skiddlydiddly wrote: »

If you are getting a spark on each plug then it is probably what Hammyman said originally and that the starter isn't engaging.If the ring gear has gone it can make some horrible screechy/grindy noises when you try to start it.

OP has had a mobile mechanic look at the car - surely even the morons at Halfords would have spotted that in a non-starter.

Next step is to find out if the injectors are firing. If they are, they will make a clicking noise, easy to spot with a stethoscope or screwdriver on the injector body. Also the plugs will be wet with fuel.

If yes, then there is some problem in the ignition circuit. If no, then the ECU isn't trying to start the car, suggesting a sensor failure, immobiliser lockout or similar. It might be easiest to get a Ford specialist to interrogate the ECU - even if no fault codes read out, they should be able to see what the ECU thinks is going on.

My bet would be a cam or crank sensor - there is no 'limp home' for these as theres no way for the ecu to run safely without them.

Apart from the whne, does the engine sound normal when cranking? Did the mechanic check the cambelt/chain/gear ?

skiddlydiddly

katebl wrote: »

No screeching noises, the guy did test one plug but not all - worth checking the rest then I'm guessing? He didn't remove the fuel pump fuse, does this make a difference? Thankyou...

If you are trying to find the problem without replacing lots of parts needlessly then being methodical like this helps narrow it down.I said remove the pump relay so you are not squirting fuel out of the empty plug hole whilst holding a sparking plug .Probably nothing would happen, but why take a chance?

katebl

epninety - thanks very much, I'm assuming the ignition will need to be on to activate the injectors? The timing belt is fine, and apart from sounding like it's trying to start a bit quicker (or more forcefully should I say) than usual no difference.

skiddlydiddly - I see your logic and I appreciate it too :beer: - I would be the unlucky one blinded or such like!

We'll be stripping it down and testing after work tomorrow - any more pointers appreciated and sorry for being a mechanical numpty!

s_b

i would suggest crank sensor but ideally it needs to go to someone who knows the difference between an engine and a sweeping brush because sometimes people who should be doing one job get confused and end up doing the other one
now this is alright but unfortunately we end up with dirty streets cluttered up with non running cars:D

epninety

katebl wrote: »

epninety - thanks very much, I'm assuming the ignition will need to be on to activate the injectors?

Yep, the injector won't fire unless the engine is turning, so try to detect it while someturn cranks the engine for you.

In former times, I would recommend a can of 'easy start' as a diagnostic tool... if it tries to run on easy start, then you have a fuel problem... if it doesn't, you have an ignition problem. That's not so clear cut with modern cars because the fuel, ignition and imobiliser are all bundled together in one box. It will still show you if you have a fuel problem or not though.

I forgot one other 'gotcha' I've seen before... if the throttle pedal is floored when cranking, the ECU often shuts off the fuel (it's called flood clear, it helps to rid the cylinders of excess fuel when it's failed to start). However, if the throttle angle sensor or switch fails, it can give the same effect. Not on all cars, but I have seen it a couple of times.

mikey72

Most of the time you won't get a spark, or injection, if there is a fault.
Crank sensor went on mine, it shuts down both.
Cam sensor has the same effect if it fails.
An ecu fault with have the same result, as will an immobiliser fault.
However, it will usually light up a warning light, and store the code.
The RAC will be able to read it if there is one, but you said there is nothing stored.
My car at least had the decency to tell me why it wouldn't even try to start, and it was an easy fix when I bought the new crank sensor.

s_b

crank sensor wont show on a fault code reader
you need more sophisticated equipment to see if its doing its job on cranking
of course you could always check it with a multimeter but this is why you pay mobile mechanics or garage men isnt it
or it should be...........:)

mikey72

s_b wrote: »

crank sensor wont show on a fault code reader
you need more sophisticated equipment to see if its doing its job on cranking
of course you could always check it with a multimeter but this is why you pay mobile mechanics or garage men isnt it
or it should be...........:)

MIne was polite enough to tell me on the dashboard, it didn't even need a reader. (Vauxhall - pedal test)

Should come up at P0320 on a Puma.