Housing and Council Tax Benefit Overpayment

mrrift

Hi all I need some help....

Betwween mid Feb and the end of May last year I was out of work for the first time in my life. I signed on for JSA, CT and Housing benefit to keep me going until I found work. I started my job at the start of June and as advised, I contacted the Job Centre to tell them the details of my new work and to sign off etc. It was expained to me at the time that I did not need to to do anything else as they contact the Council and all other relative groups to stop my benefits. I was also told that under some circumstances, there is a Housing Benefit run on. I then checked the Birmingham city council website to confirm what she said.

My JSA stopped straight away but i recieved HB and CTB. I thought that I may have qualified for a run on so was not bothered about the month of June. I then recieved them again in mid July so called them straight away. I was told that no more payments are going to be made. Again I recieved them at the end of July so wrote to them at the HB office where I signed on for them.This happened until the end of September (4 months total minus the 1 month run on) by which time I had written four letters.

Then....I had an Interview under caution letter come through the door!! I was tried like a criminal (very much guilty until proven innocent) by this very angry Senior Investigation Officer who was trying to get me admit that I was a criminal and de-frauded the system by not telling them of a change in circumstances, even though I had copies of my letters!! He looked quite annoyed that I had evidence to back my claim of innocence up and told me that the woman in the Job Centre was lying to me about the fact that DWP would contact the Council as they do not share ANY information and the HB centre that I signed on at (where I was sending the letters) had moved so they had not been getting through. H e even had the cheek to say 'Im probably lying about the phone call aswell'!!

They finished the investigation and guess what.....I was telling the truth but I have to pay back around £1200 in HB and £250 in CT.

I feel really let down by the system and want to know how to compain about how I was delt with and where I stand on paying back the money?

Thanks Jon

dmg24

As you knew that you were being overpaid, surely you have the money in an account waiting to be repaid anyway?

misssmcc

i don't think you can get out of paying the money back even though you were misadvised by the benefits office. they should let you pay in monthly instalments though. ask for a revenue staff member at the council and explain the situation.

mrrift

Yes I have the money in a seperate account, and I have just paid the CT bill. Im just really annoyed at the way it was handled and makes me look bad!

pandaspot

Just write to the benefits manager, Ring up your local authority or check the website to see what the complaints procedure is.

Or you could ring them. The fraud guy must have been having a bad day by the sound of it, I know the fraud investigators in my work would never speak to someone like he did to you

mrrift

Hi, I paid back all the money I owed to the council for them overpaying me. I also Took your advice and put in a complaint about the way they handled it. Got a letter in the post today from that w*nker from the Council saying that they now suspect me of fraud and I need to pay £410 in administrative penalty or the case will go to court. I swear this guy's got it in for me. I suffer majorly with anxiety and this is not doing me any good! What should I do???

real1314

Get copies of your phone bills for the relevant period, detailing the calls you made to the HB phone number. That should show that you made attempts to contact the council. It might not be conclusive, but it is likely to be persuasive.

Also, DWP can/do pass on details of claims being started / closed, although this action does not remove the requirement for the recipient to notify their changes in circumstance to the relvant authorities. :cool:

mazy_m

If you've paid it back why are they still being idiots about it? I don't think you should pay this and say you have proof that you tried to contact them the whole time and you paid it back and that at the moment they're harrassing you. This is ridiculous you've done the decent thing and paid back you could have said I've spent it sorry and paid them back a silly amount a month and this is how you're penalised for being honest! I don't know the law around it so I don't want to advise you on that but I couldn't imagine they have a case and it's scare tactics into making you pay this. Why don't you book an appointment to speak to Citizens Advice about it?


Hope it all goes well
Maz

fluffymovie

Hello there

I would start by saying that my husband is a benefit fraud manager and so I do have an awareness of why they can be intimidating and how!

When a claim is passed to the Investigation section, it can be for a number of reasons. In my LA, it is because the overpayment is more than £500 or the failure to declare has gone on for some time. Other things do cause me to refer like post returned etc but these are asides.

In your case, it sounds like the overpayment was of such a level that it was referred by an assessor to the investigations team. This could be because their records did not show that you had told them or because a data match was conducted between data held by DWP and us (HBMS)

Anyway, in my LA, your referral would have been risk scored to see if there was a prospect of a sanction being applied, in LA's sanctions don't mean the same as for JCP. We mean can we caution, prosecute or admin penalty you. We are all measured on our detection and prevention of fraud and how many of each we do.

So, an Investigator decided that there were causes for concern and invited you in for an IUC which is your opportunity to put your replies to the evidence that they have. Sometimes they do have to be adversarial as people do lie and cheat and they have to find out the truth, I would say however that on no occasion should personal comments be made. However, in order to proceed, under Police and Criminal evidence Act, you have to be shown to have knowlingly failed to tell us something, or to be aware that there was an overpayment. Without this, you don't meet the criteria for a fraud sanction.

At the start of the IUC, you will have been shown the PACE book and told that if you wish to pause the interview at any time, you could do so. If you felt uncomfortable, this may have been the best suggestion but hey, hindsight is 100% isn't it.

After the IUC, the investigator would look at your replies and a decision maker (in my LA, the Head of Service) makes a decision about whether there is a case to answer. If they consider that there is, you may be offered a caution or an ad pen. You may also be referred for prosecution but they can only offer you an Ad Pen if you admit an offence. If you say you did not, then I don't understand how they have done this.

An Ad Pen is to save us going to court and basically, you pay back what you owe plus a little more. If you haven't admitted the offence, you can not be asked to agree to an Ad Pen but even if you have, I think you gave 28 days to change your mind.

I would say in response to Mazy_m - it isn't the fact that the money was paid back, it is about whether an offence has been committed. If someone robbed a bank and the money was found, would you say that they could get away with that? A silly comparison but you see my point

OP - check the transcript of your IUC and see if you admitted an offence, If not, you cannot be given an Ad Pen.

Make a formal complaint to the Benefit Manager or Head of Service and copy in your Cllr and MP if you need to.

Sorry I can't help more, feel like i have waffled but I hope some of it is useful