How bad does this sound?

Googlewhacker

Hootie19 wrote: »

Thanks googlewhacker - he's now wonder if that's exactly what IS happening. A horrible position to be in.

Just be aware it may just be the company being overly protective so a wait and see approach for now maybe best.

Sambucus_Nigra

Can I just ask what the boss actually did when he WAS informed?

Although there might indeed be a good major incident procedure - it's no good sat on a system. It needs to be freely available and have been communicated to all staff...and surely all staff on call would be able to at least recall the general steps which need to be taken if it happens - otherwise it's pointless having one if nobody knows it.

Hootie19

Sambucus Nigra - The boss asked my husband to send an email to all the key people in the company. Heads of department etc. This was done.

He then told my husband to go to the data centre, which he did (although there was nothing he could actually do there, othen than physically check the servers - given that the problem lay with other companies' equipment).

Other than that, we're not exactly sure what his boss did. We assume he called his own boss, and then alerted various internal account managers. Presumably my husband's boss, and futher up his chain of command, are able to speak to people further up the chain of command at the company my husband was speaking to, who would put their own major incident plans into action - if they weren't already being done.

Your_Silent_Face

This certainly seems to have moved on very quickly, but without knowng the culture of the organisation or the incident/escalation policy it's hard to judge. I've worked in a Data Centre - Service Provider - web/app/database hosting environment for many years, and have been both the on-call techie and "the boss". As the boss, I used to get a call or page/SMS within minutes of a major incident, but that is our policy. I know he's waiting for info - knowing what his policy will go a long way to understanding what he's dealing with.

I also didn't see any mention of SLA. Does DH's company have an SLA with the recruitment agency, and if so was it breached? There may be penalties which are driving these actions. Also (being more cynical) what executive-level relationships exist? This strikes me as one of those times where some CxO/MD level in the affected company has called his CxO/MD equivalent - who he probably plays golf with - at 9am, and before you know it its scapegoat time.

That probably doesn't help other than to suggest that DH looks deeper into what he is fighting, and at what level. If it isn't the No 2/No 3, then he would waste energy and time figuring out a defence against them.

One important point, though, having disciplined staff and worked with a very good HR team. DH MUST be granted access to any documents, policies, e-mails etc which he may need in his defence. Yes, access to customer systems may be suspended, but access to anything which might be used in any hearing can not.

Strider590

3 hours isn't a long time when your trying to help to a complete idiot with anything IT related.

eg... How hard is it to guide someone into restarting a PC?

"my printer won't work"
"does it have ink/paper?"
"yes"
"turn off the printer at the mains and restart the PC"
"how?"
"use the start menu"
"what's that?"
"it's in the bottom left hand corner"
"it just says Dell"
"errrr (think for a while)..... no, not the PC tower, on the screen"
"the screen is off"
"turn it on"
"but I thought you said to restart it"
"yes, you need the monitor on to do that"
"oh, now I can't see it, there's just a thing saying windows floating about the screen"
"yes that's just a screen saver"
"what's that?"
"never mind, it's not important, just move the mouse and it'll go away"
"now what?"
"restart it"
"how"
"the start button"
"but I want to restart it, not start it"
"yes but that's where the menu is"
"ok im restarting it"

5 minutes later due to piles of viruses and spyware

"ok it's restarted and still not working"
"did you turn off the printer?"
"yes i pressed the button on the front"

head is about to explode at this point, steam is pouring out of ears and the the phone is cracking under the pressure from my right hand.

"no, you need to turn it off at the plug and then restart the PC"
"but I just restarted the PC"
"yes I know, but both the printer and the PC retain old print jobs in memory, just do it"
"im not happy with this, you don't know what your doing, im off to PC world"


So I think he should probably be rewarded for his patience!

Googlewhacker

I could be wrong Strider but I don't think we are talking about the OP's OH talking to an end user (a particularly dumb end user in your case!)

Strider590

Googlewhacker wrote: »

I could be wrong Strider but I don't think we are talking about the OP's OH talking to an end user (a particularly dumb end user in your case!)

You'd be surprised how far into IT these "dumb end users" can go, simply by learning a few big words, learning business/meeting speak and becoming fluent in bullsh1t.

Hootie19

Well, he's received email notification that the disciplinary is at 11am tomorrow. He has been sent a copy of the grievance procedure by email. One of his colleagues emailed him a flowchart last night which shows the on call procedures. There are no timescales mentioned on it. His colleague also sent him a copy of a *draft* powerpoint presentation that the boss sent out toward the end of last year about operational standards, with one slide referencing on call and what to do, but no mention of timescales. Neither of his colleague-friends can find a definitive policy on Major Incidents.

The email telling him about the meeting tomorrow was sent to his work email address - to which he has no direct access, but which he can access via his company iphone.

He spoke to our house insurers today who have told him that they cannot advise prior to the disciplinary, but more or less just said that they can speak to him afterwards. Presumably meaning they will help him appeal a dismissal?

He also spoke to ACAS who told him that

1. The company should have given 48 hours notice, so company haven't followed guidelines;

2. That he can take someone with him, but not a company outsider

3. They are unable to give legal advice or advice how to defend the action, all they can do is advise after the meeting.

Pretty much useless, really.

I am just so concerned that my husband will unwittingly say something incriminating during the meeting that can't then be "undone".

My husband thinks that what they are going for under their disciplinary procedure is within the Gross Misconduct and Dismissal section of the disciplinary procedures is "serious negligence which causes or is capable of causing, unacceptable loss”.

Your_Silent_Face – their clients are not recruitment agencies. The client base contains the likes of high street banks, local authorities and major corporations.

I still can’t get past the fact that no matter what time his boss was alerted, there was NOTHING that the company my husband works for could have done to fix the problem. He thinks their argument will be that getting a manager to speak to their provider’s manager would have made their provider fix it more quickly. Personally, I can’t see that being the case, but of course, I don’t know.

Not sure if I mentioned it before, but it may be relevant. When he was called into the office for the meeting with Nos. 2 and 3 yesterday, it was sent to his outlook calendar, and is noted as “Review of Serious Incident”. It was not tasked as a fact finding mission – which maybe it should have been, if they were thinking of disciplinary proceedings at that point.

Keep all fingers crossed please – if he gets dismissed, this will destroy us. My wages don’t even cover our mortgage payments, and our mortgage insurance policy doesn’t cover dismissal, so we really need him to keep this job.

Sambucus_Nigra

Hootie19 wrote: »

They said he should have realised sooner how major a problem it was and called his boss sooner.

My argument would lie on this point - what in any training or procedures determines what is and isn't major enough to call the boss immediately?

Also, does the email to which he doesn't have access but can access on his iphone mention the level of the disciplinary and what might happen if he is found 'guilty'? Presumably, if they had cut communications properly then they have invited him to a disciplinary which he didn't know about? A bit like taking him to a disciplinary on a point of procedure that doesn't exist.

Hootie19

The email he received, which was sent at 11.32am today, is headed "disciplinary meeting" and the body reads

Morning xxxxxxx

Following our meeting yesterday to discuss the serious incident which occurred and your resulting suspension, please find attached the company’s disciplinary policy.

I will send a separate meeting invite for 11:00am tomorrow. Please note this is a formal management meeting being held under this policy. Can I also specifically draw you attention to your right to be accompanied by a colleague, and if you want to take up this option you should let me know who this will be (ideally by the end of today).

I will call you a little later in the day to make sure you received this communication.

Regards

xxxxxxx


(He didn't call to make sure he received the email - which was sent to my husband's company email account. Remember - he has been given restricted access to company systems, including his emails. He was able to pick up the email on the company iphone, but he wasn't even sure if he was allowed to use it.)

The next communication he received was a calendar appointment which said:
Friday 20 May 2011
from 11.00 to 12.00
Invitation from [No2 in the managerial heirarchy]
Invitees - [DH],
I think giving him less then 24 hours notice of the meeting is a bit dubious. It doesn't give him much time to prepare.

It has been suggested that he asks:
What was the policy he was supposed to have contravened
When was he trained in it?
Where is his signature saying that he has read it and understands it?
What was the purpose of making a phone call to his line manager
If making the phone call was to initiate action - would any action by his line manager have been effective?
As waiting until the severity of the incident was at its highest point before contacting his boss has been deemed unacceptable, what would the boss have done if he [DH] had contacted him earlier, when the extent of the problem was much less. Would what the manager did at that point have affected the outcome of the incident

Or would asking too many questions be seen as my husband being awkward and he'd be better off saying as little as possible and just waiting to hear the outcome of what the managers decide?



I'd like to say thank you to all who have replied to my post. I really appreciate people taking the time to reply - and above all else, not being judgmental and saying "well it's all his own fault - he deserves what he gets".