Can my friend find out if she is being given bad references?

Spendless

Asking this for a friend. For sake of this thread we will call her Rose (not her real name).

Rose had worked at company A for 3 years, she had her ups and downs there, especially when a relief manager came in, so one day when she saw a job being advertised for the same industry at company B she applied and got the job.

When writing out her notice for company A, she foolishly (IMO as I typed her notice for her, with her words) did not say I will give 1 weeks/months notice to quit. last day being .......... Instead she asked company A to give her a suitable date for her to leave. Company A then started saying well you can't go then cos of hols etc, but eventually they verbally agreed on a date, only for company A to try to start back-tracking and ask her to change it to a later leaving date, which Rose got annoyed about. An hour or so later she was asked to leave that day. Rose had been paid 2 days earlier, but she queried what the next wage packet would be, and company A weren't going to pay her, not for the full day she had worked since last wage packet, nor the day she was asked to leave, nor her accrrued holiday pay. After taking advice she was told she not only was entitled to all these things, but also to her full wages up until the verbally agreed date Rose was due to leave on. Company A disagreed, so Rose took them to tribunal, where a day or so before they settled the outstanding money out of court.

In the meantime Rose starts working for Company B. Company B whilst the same industry as Company A is far more down-market and the manager was thrilled to have her. After Rose has worked at Company B for a few weeks, the manager calls her to his office, says she is not suitable for the position and is asked to leave, no explanation is given.

A devastated Rose starts claiming JSA contribution based. A couple of weeks later Rose is rung at home by Company C, still the same type of business, but who she has no idea of, other than knowing their location. The owner of Company C says she has heard from a mutual acquaintance (still same line of business but no connection to any other company) that Rose is out of work, and she has a job, could she come for an interview. Rose attends and is told to phone following week for her hours. Rose does this only to be told by owner that the job has been filled by a relative who is having financial problems.

A new totally unrelated business is opening in our village, Rose applies for either the part or full-time position and gets through to the second interview, where she is in part interviewed by someone she worked with many years ago. She hears nothing for 2.5 weeks and eventually rings HR to be told she hasn't been successful.

Of course by now Rose is wondering if Company A who she puts as a reference each time is giving her a bad one because of the tribunal over her owed wages. Is there anyway she can found this out? She is still claiming JSA contribution based if that is of any help.

Savvy_Sue

She can ask Company A for a copy of her reference. I don't believe they have to give it to her, BUT it is possible that Company B or C do ...

I'm moving to another computer which I hope will cooperate with me in an attempt to find some authority for this belief. I only read it the other day ...

Right, I'm back. With my authority. It's the Information Commissioner. You want the third link down, here.

This is what is said about your previous employers disclosing a reference:

Do you have to give a copy of a reference you have written?
If someone asks for a copy of a confidential reference you have written about them relating to training, employment or providing a service, you do not have to provide it because of an exemption in the Act.

However, you may choose to provide the information. It would seem reasonable
to provide a copy if a reference is wholly or largely factual in nature, or if the individual is aware of an appraisal of their work or ability.

Of course, one way of finding out what the reference is like is for someone she knows to write and ask for a reference for her. Maybe the person she used to work with would be willing to say whether it was the reference which scuppered her.

Spendless

Savvy_Sue wrote:

She can ask Company A for a copy of her reference. I don't believe they have to give it to her, BUT it is possible that Company B or C do ...

Of course, one way of finding out what the reference is like is for someone she knows to write and ask for a reference for her. Maybe the person she used to work with would be willing to say whether it was the reference which scuppered her.

Ypu mean Company B or Company C may give her a copy of the reference from Company A?

I have suggested to Rose the last suggestion, unfortunately everyone she knows is either living in the same village as she does (so worried that Company A will realise it's Rose after the info) or they have refused to help, eg her brother who lives on other side on town refused on the grounds that Rose is being devious:rolleyes: .

The person she used to work with , let's call this unrelated business a bakers, is the baker at the bakery in the next village, that knew Rose when she used to clean there over 12 years ago for a few hours each week. As the baker is not HO or HR staff and there has been no connection between Rose and herself between then and now, not sure if she would help. Also there is also the possibility that the baker said that she wouldn't recommend Rose cos she thought she was a rubbish cleaner all those years ago, so don't know if approaching this person would help

Spendless

ts_aly2000 wrote:

The other way to do it is to explain what happened at company A to any new companies.

She can't as she is bound by a confidentiality clause. Yes I know she's told me, and I've posted on here for help, but this is why I'm being delibrately vague. Company A is also bound by a confidentiality clause, which is why she would like to know what they are saying.

Astaroth

You would have to look at what the confidentiality clause says.... it is certainly common place in many industries but only relates to confidential matters so for example with myself, I can say that my latest project has been to work on an acquisition of a significant competitor, working on the due diligence, integration plan and completing a statement for the competition commission with a multi billion pound price tag however I couldnt say that it was company X or what our plans were or how much we would be paying etc.

If confidentiality agreements were so binding that you couldnt even describe what your job was/ the generality of what you did/ what happened then it would almost certainly be unenforceable as it would effectively prevent you from ever being able to get another job as you would have a potentially big whole in your CV and whilst your CV may say you had 10 years experience as a Project Manager not being able to say anything about it would cost you the job.

The problem that "Rose" will have is the fact that she may have a negative reference from company A and probably one now from company B (unsatisfactory reference from previous employer).

In this day and age it is unusual to actually get negative references but what is much more common is for a company to refuse to give a reference (which they are entitled to do) which many companies will read between the lines and conclude that it means that it would have been negative. With my employers, if any of your referees from your employers over the last 3 years either give you negative reference or refuse to give a complete reference will result in you not getting the job.

She can ask all the companies for copies of the references how ever as pointed out by others, they are under no obligation to provide these.

Spendless

Astaroth wrote:

If confidentiality agreements were so binding that you couldnt even describe what your job was/ the generality of what you did/ what happened then it would almost certainly be unenforceable as it would effectively prevent you from ever being able to get another job as you would have a potentially big whole in your CV and whilst your CV may say you had 10 years experience as a Project Manager not being able to say anything about it would cost you the job.

The problem that "Rose" will have is the fact that she may have a negative reference from company A and probably one now from company B (unsatisfactory reference from previous employer).

Hi I've re-typed this, as I think we've mis-understood what we each meant. Rose is tied by confidentiality over the details of the tribunal not over her role at Company A. Company A is also bound by the same confidentiality.

She doesn't tell prospective employers about Company B due to only working there for a few weeks and being asked to leave with no explanation. When asked for her reasons for leaving Company A she gives family circumstances with regard to elderly relatives which has now been resolved.

I'm beginning to wonder if I should suggest if next time she gets an interview she misses out Company A altogether. This would give her a gap of an extra 3 years on her CV but she could give "family reasons" for that too. that way her last employers would be people she remains on friendly terms with. Any ideas

nickmack

Spendless wrote:

I'm beginning to wonder if I should suggest if next time she gets an interview she misses out Company A altogether. This would give her a gap of an extra 3 years on her CV but she could give "family reasons" for that too. that way her last employers would be people she remains on friendly terms with. Any ideas

This would be a lie and could have consequences on a future job should the employer find out. Probably best not to add a dismissal for gross misconduct to the mix.

Astaroth

Also when she gets the next job her tax records will go to them anyway which will show she has had PAYE earnings and therefore has lied on her application form and so it will be very easy to spot the lie

Spendless

Ok fair enough, not a good idea, but any ideas on where to go from here, cos at the min it seems that she is unable to get a job.

Could the Job centre help in any way with this issue

peter999

Astaroth wrote:

Also when she gets the next job her tax records will go to them anyway which will show she has had PAYE earnings and therefore has lied on her application form and so it will be very easy to spot the lie

Yes, her CV will be sent to MI5 & a job referencing company.
You don't need to declare previous earnings to next employer, they only need tax code.

A whole team will be crosschecking her previous confidential PAYE details
to spot these discrepancies

Yeah right !!

CV's are full of exagerrated statements, things that have been conveniently missed etc.
.

Spendless

peter999 wrote:

Yes, her CV will be sent to MI5 & a job referencing company.
You don't need to declare previous earnings to next employer, they only need tax code.

A whole team will be crosschecking her previous confidential PAYE details
to spot these discrepancies

Yeah right !!

CV's are full of exagerrated statements, things that have been conveniently missed etc.
.

I admit I thought it was only a tax code that was sent,
but then I've never worked in a wages dept so I don't know. I appreciate the other members point that she could be in bother if found out and at min she's finding it hard enough to get a job in first place.

Any more ideas as to what Rose could do