Car Giant - Taken them to small claims, but what will happen now?

Equaliser123

There won't be any adverse costs order against the OP.

OP - consider serving a Notice to Admit Facts on them and THEN obtain an independent report. You will be in a much better position regarding recovering the costs of the report.

What stage are you at in the process? Have 'Directions' been issued which should deal with the requirement to serve documentary evidence. It may well also detail what the Court considers appropriate in respect of expert evidence.

Silk

sabz3008 wrote: »

Thanks. Do you think its worth buying an independent report, I found a company through the IAEA's website but they want £250 :/ and said they can inspect the old clutch component (I still have it) - They're apparently registered as 'reliable witnesses' - if I do spend the £250, will I be able to claim that too?

Hi sabz,
I would def. get a report, if you don't you will leave yourself wide open ...I will try and explain in basic detail without knowing all the facts.

First of all a clutch is designed to wear ie the clutch plate which spins between the flywheel and the clutch cover assembly has friction linings such as on brake pads and brake shoes etc ....with use these wear out ....how long before they do wear out can depend on how the driver uses it ....for example I know a guy who goes through clutches about every 18k miles.

Secondly a normal flywheel does not wear out unless the friction material on the plate wears through and scores the flywheel However .....your flywheel will have been a DMF flywheel (Dual Mass Flywheel..fitted to a lot of diesels etc) which is basicaly two flywheels held together by some sort of flexible fixing ie rubber compund type ....these can wear out and cause problems due to drivers riding clutch etc etc. That said they can be faulty from new of course and can give problems with average wear rather like rubber mountings on suspension etc etc.
A DMF is designed to be flexible to smooth out the extra torque from diesel engines and give smoother gear changes etc Hence the reason given the symptoms that most garages will want to replace all items at the same time

Now without a report to say exactly what the cause of the fault was it will be very difficult to prove anything other than wear and tear and whilst you are confident about your mothers driving you have now idea of the previous drivers

My advice is to get a report otherwise there is every chance you will lose the case

sabz3008

Now without a report to say exactly what the cause of the fault was it will be very difficult to prove anything other than wear and tear and whilst you are confident about your mothers driving you have now idea of the previous drivers

If it is 'wear and tear' - Does this make them liable? / I can't be responsible for the previous drivers, it's surely their responsibility as I purchased it from them?

OP - consider serving a Notice to Admit Facts on them and THEN obtain an independent report. You will be in a much better position regarding recovering the costs of the report.

How will I do this now, am I allowed to contact them or do I need to get the courts to do this?

What stage are you at in the process? Have 'Directions' been issued which should deal with the requirement to serve documentary evidence. It may well also detail what the Court considers appropriate in respect of expert evidence.

What's happened is:
January 2011: Submitted claim on MCO
February 2011: Car Giant filed a defence : on the defence they wrote: "independent engineer's opinion based on the evidence he has seen, it appears that the components (clutch) have failed as a result of wear and tear through poor usage of the clutch system. In the opinion of the engineer this fault has been caused through some form of driver-induced error. Gotta give it to them, good use of words...It's like, what is it? - Wear and tear or poor usage
February 2011: Court transferred it to Central London
February 2011: I sent back a green form (I'm pretty much sure it said mediation, but stupidly I didn't keep a copy) saying I want to take it further
April 2011: Central London transferred it to Wandsworth
May 2011: I'm confused

Thank you for your advice Silk , I think you're right , best thing for me to do is start gathering my evidence and invest in that engineer's report...I just hope I'm able to add that to the claim later on too.

Silk

sabz3008 wrote: »

If it is 'wear and tear' - Does this make them liable? / I can't be responsible for the previous drivers, it's surely their responsibility as I purchased it from them?

Hi Sabz,
Sorry to say if it is wear and tear then they won't be liable with something that is designed to wear out....which basicaly a clutch is.

Tyres are a good example ....most decent quality ones from new would be expected to last at least 20k but give a set to some boy racer who does doughnuts round car parks in the middle of the night and he would be lucky to get 3k out of them

Or give the same set to someone who spends time going through towns with lots of roundabouts etc and they won't last as long as someone who potters round country lanes at 25mph so it's not just down to careless driving etc.

We are talking extremes here of course but I'm sure you get the picture ....the problem is that you have bought a second hand car that various components on it will have worn to x degree how much wear will depend on it's past driver history .....unless you are Derren Brown or very obvious then it's hard to tell.

All that said if you can prove it's down to a faulty component related to the judder then you should be ok ......However when you say ...

on the defence they wrote: "independent engineer's opinion based on the evidence he has seen, it appears that the components (clutch) have failed as a result of wear and tear through poor usage of the clutch system. In the opinion of the engineer this fault has been caused through some form of driver-induced error.

Who is this engineer and when did he see the evidence ??????
Have they examined the clutch after it was removed from the vehicle ????

sabz3008

Who is this engineer and when did he see the evidence ??????
Have they examined the clutch after it was removed from the vehicle ????

The engineer is apparently from 'Dekra' and was sent to the garage where the vehicle was being repaired, whilst it was being repaired...

Tyres are a good example .

Tyres I can understand, but surely if it's something that's not visible to the open eye, or noticeable to someone other than a trained mechanic then ?... But what baffles me reading all of what you have said is that the clutch has been damaged through driver induced error, but also because of wear and tear? - They said this in their own words, so what do you feel that they are effectively suggesting?

Thank you very much for your reply Silk, I really appreciate your input. I do have a more better understanding on what to do now too I suppose. I spoke to Wandsworth county court earlier who advised also that before anything else, best thing to do is wait and hear from the judge, then take it from there. I'll look for a less expensive vehicle assessor too in the mean time.

Silk

sabz3008 wrote: »

The engineer is apparently from 'Dekra' and was sent to the garage where the vehicle was being repaired, whilst it was being repaired...

Hi sabz,
Pity that ...Dekra are recognised as experts and if they visited the garage whilst being repaired I would say they will have seen the components after removal....which is realy the only way to determine the faults.

But what baffles me reading all of what you have said is that the clutch has been damaged through driver induced error, but also because of wear and tear? - They said this in their own words, so what do you feel that they are effectively suggesting?

It's very hard to say anything other than what they say if there is no component failures such as fractures or broken parts etc....if something shows abnormal wear with no obvious explanation they will assume it's down to mistreatment

I'm sorry to say it may be an outside chance that a second opinion will find anything different but you would have to decide what odds you are willing to take.

sabz3008

Thank you Silk.

I hope everyone else that reads this post sees just how terrible car giant are and don't fall for the 'giant choice giant savings' ads...because all they are is a giant head ache

bigbulldog

Hi,sorry to hear about your troubles with the car and the dealer however just to let you know and this depends on your bmw model and year,but our 2007 bmw coupe 320d suffered from clutch judder and there was a recall about this,so it might be worth investigating via bmw to see if your purchase was affected by this.

We had ours fixed under warranty,but it took over 9 months of haggling with them and this was a new car.

There is also a motoring website that gives information about recall's.

Daisy_doo_3

When u spoke to bmw, was it the callcentre or something, do u no when - they may have recorded it?

Good luck with the case

P.s I read their experts opinion as it was wear&tear caused by driver error. I would definately get a written statement from the garage too, may not be "reliable witness" but a statement as evidence is better than "he said this".

eeeeeee

did the 114 Point inspection include the clutch ?
"Our technicians put every vehicle through a rigorous Quality Inspection, checking more than 114 points to meet our high quality standards."