Cis (again!)

Pennywise

DCodd wrote: »

To be fair Pennywise, if the CIS helpline couldn't verify the subbie then no software package could either.

Of course, I agree, but my point is that with software, once you've entered the basic subbie info, everything else is done via the software, including the online verification, then the monthly returns etc., so there's far less scope for mistakes. And as Chris rightly says, you have an "audit trail" of what you've submitted within the software by virtue of the HMRC submission receipt logs. My point was that the OP said they couldn't afford software but probably the most-recommended software is only £55 which "may" have helped reduce the problems/mistakes in this case. Perhaps the OP had been misled in the post that proper software costs a lot more, i.e. the likes of the over-priced and less functional Sage etc!

Lifeisbutadream

DCodd wrote: »

Was the NI number incorrect as well? What about the address?

Yes I had an incorrect number, which was actually a company number... the address should be right though

chrismac1

Life, my view is you need to bite the bullet and hire a good local accountant who knows his or her way around CIS. To see if they do, in the free consultation just throw around the issues you've raised in this post. If you get a a blank look or a duff answer, find the door handle!

You are dipping a toe into the miefield called "CIS too difficult pile". You may not be aware of this, but the pile is located in Newry, Northern Ireland. Rumours that the real IRA have booby-trapped it are greatly exaggerated, but you can certainly find your tax records blown to pieces if you tread on the wrong part of this minefield.

At least if you hire an accountant, the PII cover and tax protection insurance - if you get this - will provide you with some weapons to fire if the booby-traps start exploding. I repeat, this is the most shambolic and difficult area of HMRC to deal with, and every month of potential error is potentially another £100. Bills can quickly escalate to £5k and then £10k. One guy I saw "owed" £30k because he failed to understand CIS - he didn't sign up with me but decided to liquidate instead which I totally understand.

Lifeisbutadream

chrismac1 wrote: »

Life, my view is you need to bite the bullet and hire a good local accountant who knows his or her way around CIS. To see if they do, in the free consultation just throw around the issues you've raised in this post. If you get a a blank look or a duff answer, find the door handle!

You are dipping a toe into the miefield called "CIS too difficult pile". You may not be aware of this, but the pile is located in Newry, Northern Ireland. Rumours that the real IRA have booby-trapped it are greatly exaggerated, but you can certainly find your tax records blown to pieces if you tread on the wrong part of this minefield.

At least if you hire an accountant, the PII cover and tax protection insurance - if you get this - will provide you with some weapons to fire if the booby-traps start exploding. I repeat, this is the most shambolic and difficult area of HMRC to deal with, and every month of potential error is potentially another £100. Bills can quickly escalate to £5k and then £10k. One guy I saw "owed" £30k because he failed to understand CIS - he didn't sign up with me but decided to liquidate instead which I totally understand.

Thanks - they try and fine me all the time, but I have never paid yet.

I dont find CIS too difficult, I just find it very frustrating! there is no way that I can justify paying an accountant to do everything for us - we simply dont earn that much from our subbies, it wouldnt be worth it.

I have paid everything that I need to do, I might have made the odd mistake, but I am not doing too badly

jayencee

We've had a couple of subbies who we have been unable to verify lately as well, they had both changed their status in the last six months or so but had been told by CIS to use their old UTR nos. Unfortunately, the system (both computer and on the phone) doesn't recognise them as the UTR no does not match up with their new statuses!. Have told both of them to ring their tax office to sort it out before we can pay them, or we deduct 30% tax.

chrismac1

This part of the system seems especially badly written. I once had one part of HMRC on the landline chasing £200 CIS debt, I was also on the phone to Newry who correctly confirmed a zero balance for my client. They were both looking at screens which purported to show a real time balance, the last monthly submission relating to the potential £200 fine was 3 months before this.

The first woman refused to call Newry to confirm she was wrong, and Newry also wanted me to sort it out for them. In the end I took the two phones and connected them mouthpiece to earpiece and forced them to talk to one another! The credit chaser backed down.

The worrying thing is that the CIS database is so bad it can show tow HMRC operators different balances for transactions which took place months ago. And the one with the higher balance is the one mentioning bailiffs and generally getting my client upset. The root cause? Someone in HMRC had deleted 2 submissions from the system, then the system had fined my client £200 for late returns. I don't use HMRC's software so had an independent record the submission were on time, hence the £200 was removed by Newry - but for some reason not reflected some months later on the credit control system.

If this post does not scare anyone who is in CIS and thinks "I'm all right, Jack" then nothing will.

Lifeisbutadream

chrismac1 wrote: »

This part of the system seems especially badly written. I once had one part of HMRC on the landline chasing £200 CIS debt, I was also on the phone to Newry who correctly confirmed a zero balance for my client. They were both looking at screens which purported to show a real time balance, the last monthly submission relating to the potential £200 fine was 3 months before this.

The first woman refused to call Newry to confirm she was wrong, and Newry also wanted me to sort it out for them. In the end I took the two phones and connected them mouthpiece to earpiece and forced them to talk to one another! The credit chaser backed down.

The worrying thing is that the CIS database is so bad it can show tow HMRC operators different balances for transactions which took place months ago. And the one with the higher balance is the one mentioning bailiffs and generally getting my client upset. The root cause? Someone in HMRC had deleted 2 submissions from the system, then the system had fined my client £200 for late returns. I don't use HMRC's software so had an independent record the submission were on time, hence the £200 was removed by Newry - but for some reason not reflected some months later on the credit control system.

If this post does not scare anyone who is in CIS and thinks "I'm all right, Jack" then nothing will.

I dont understand any of what you just said? who is Newry ?

chrismac1

Your are lucky not to know. Newry is where ALL UK CIS tax is administered from. Yes Newry Northern Ireland.