Overpayment of Income Support - help needed!

real1314

TheHangingJudge wrote: »

The DWP has a duty to ensure their payments are correct, whether you like it or not. The OP discharged their duty by telling them (eventually) about starting work, the rest of the overpayment is DWP's fault.

OP - ignore these people & continue with your appeal.

I didn't dispute that DWP has a duty to pay correctly. So does a bank. So does an employer. So do individuals when carrying out their own financial transactions. However in all cases errors occur.

Banks expect to be able to recover incorrect payments.
Employers expect to be able to recover incorrect payments.
Individuals expect to be abale to receover incorrect payments.
You think the DWP is a special category because?

I'm not sure why you have decided that the OP should ignore all advice but yours. It's not really based on anything that applies anywhere else. Do you have a link to a law, regulation of act that specifies that the common law does not apply to DWP transactions? :cool:

TheHangingJudge

Do you have a link which says the whole overpayment is recoverable ?

Here's the ORG.

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/pdfs/DWP_ORG_Feb_2005.doc

Dazzle us all with your acumen.

Seriously, how can you calculate & recover a "failed to disclose remunerative work" overpayment when the claimant discloses that work a third of the way through the overpayment period ?

Wouldn't the correct advice be to appeal against the decision ? Seems not on this forum, anyway. Daren't have anyone being better off than you, huh ?

real1314

TheHangingJudge wrote: »

Do you have a link which says the whole overpayment is recoverable ?

Here's the ORG.

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/pdfs/DWP_ORG_Feb_2005.doc

Dazzle us all with your acumen.

Seriously, how can you calculate & recover a "failed to disclose remunerative work" overpayment when the claimant discloses that work a third of the way through the overpayment period ?

Wouldn't the correct advice be to appeal against the decision ? Seems not on this forum, anyway. Daren't have anyone being better off than you, huh ?

well, firstly, I'm unlikely to dazzle you with my acumen, as most of this response will be rather mundane. Quite simplistic even.

I'd suggest that you have made a bit of a flawed decision to present the ORG. No doubt you did a bit of googling and stumbled on it and thought "Wow, that'll fox the !!!!!!s!"
However, the fundamental mistake is that the ORG does not govern the decision on recoverability of an overpayment.

So what is the point of you, me or anyone else delving into it at all?
(I could also point out that the copy you've linked is from 2005. There may well be a more up to date edition).

Strike Count 1.

On the overpayment itself, the decision to seek recovery does not have to be solely on failure to disclose.
banks don't do it on that; nor emplyers; nor individuals.

You see you skipped past my comments without addressing them. Perhaps if you go back and think about those categories you might educate yourself. You might even dazzle yourself if you get to the nub of the matter! :cool:

GAD161

I drafted a long reply which unfortunately got lost somewhere and I haven't got the time or energy to repeat. The essence was to ignore people advising whether to appeal based on their moral standpoints and irrelevant comparisons to banks, employers etc. Social security is based on law (regulations and caselaw). The last poster requested a more up to date legal decision establishing the law in 'official error' overpayment cases (covers IS). Here it is:
(unfortunately I could not post the bloody link as a new user and had to go back in and remove it. Maybe someone from MSE could post it up rather than let incorrect legal advice proliferate!!)

It's a Supreme Court decision. DWP cannot use common law to recover 'official error' overpayments that they would not be able to recover under the relevant social security legislation. Pay back if you think it is morally right and continue debating the morality of the issue if you want.. There will be grey areas (DWP can't always be expected to deal in real time with reported changes in circumstances if admin procedures have already started to send payments) but where there is a clear error on the part of the DWP you can still appeal. If the DWP were resourced properly then not so many errors would occur (including the errors or lack of information that result in far more being underpaid to people who are entitled than being overpaid to people who are not entitled).

allen35

These extracts are from CPAG's challenge through the courts regarding overpayments when DWP made the error:

http://www.cpag.org.uk/welfarerights/overpayment-recovery/overpayment-recovery.htm

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The DWP accepted in the letters it wrote that the overpayments fell outside the test in s 71. The DWP accepted that the overpayments were caused by mistakes made by the DWP and were not caused by anything the claimants had done or failed to do. The DWP was arguing that even though these cases did not meet the test set out in s 71 they could still recover the overpayments through the county court at common law, ie outside the scheme set out in the social security legislation. [/FONT]

DWP can only recover under s 71. This means that if overpayments are caused by the DWP’s own error the Department cannot recover them by suing at common law in the county courts. Claimants who have been overpaid as a result of the DWP’s own errors can choose to repay voluntarily if they wish to.

Appeal by letter or GL24 (download from directgov) and mention you disagree with the decision to recover the overpayment due to official error on the part of DWP and the fact you didn't fail to disclose a material fact (beginning work and informing of continued payments)

I must agree i have always been under the impression that if you are overpaid and you are aware you had to pay back in law but hopefully i am now wrong and it can be challenged...

Good luck

FBaby

I really can't understand your thinking that you should be fighting to keep this money. I have total understanding for those who were overpaid whilst genuinely not realising that they were not entitled to the money they received (and there are quite a few), but you KNEW you were not entitled to that money. You might have needed some money, but that doesn't change the fact that you knew you were not supposed to be spending it. What did you expect? That they would never claim it back? Why not? You should have put the money aside and tried other means to support yourself or at least you need to accept now that this money was in essence a loan that you now need to repay.

dreavi

I remember something similar happended to me when |I was last on Jobseekers, (about six years ago).

They sent me a letter asking for £250 back or thereabouts but the tone was really odd as it said 'ask' rather than demand.

I called them up and asked if it was compulsory or not and after some umming and ahhing she lady said they cant demand it back or take me to court all they can do is ask me to return it.

I said that I would be keeping it but thank you very much. I think I bought something nice with it though :rotfl:

DX2

The OP did everything within her power to stop the DWP from paying her IS, she phoned the DWP twice, I personally would appeal and argue that the overpayment fault lies within the DWP.

FBaby

So if the council took too much out of the OP account one month, informed the OP that that was the amount they intended to take a few days before, but the Op didn't act on it, then she realised when it came out, does it mean that she shouldn't be able to claim that money back because they had informed her of the amount? Would she think that because they told her, it became her fault, so it was fair enough and wouldn't bother to fight them for the money.... It goes both ways...

Jillian123

I wonder if anybody can advise me on my situation.

I was claiming income support for my son who was living with me. He then went to live with somebody else and I continued claiming for him and giving the money to them for him. I have now got a letter from Income Support saying I was overpaid and they are taking the money back. I realise I was claiming for somebody who didn't live with me but I was giving the money to the people who he did live with.

I know they put in a claim for tax credits for my son but not sure if they are receiving money yet. Is there any way I can find out if they are getting anything yet and would it still be me liable for the overpayment or them if they were claiming aswell as getting money off me.