Being charged by national grid for burst gas main

Hucky

Recently I have been having a job done in my front garden where we had to use a mini excavator for a day. Whilst this was being done it went through the gas main pipe. We flagged down a British Gas Engineer who was driving past and he looked at the burst pipe and told us it had originally been installed incorrectly at 75mm and 100mm from ground level. He put a call out for Engineers from NATIONAL GRID to come and repair and he said it would depend on what they write in their report as to whether we would be charged for it and they arrived 90 minutes later and they said exactly the same that it was originally installed at the incorrect depth and once they spent 20 minutes repairing it they advised us to take photographs and should we receive an invoice they advised us to contest it and to continue to do so.

We did receive an invoice for £300 and as advised we sent off the photographs with a letter, However they have replied saying that there is no statutory requirement for a minimum depth when gas services are being laid. Obviously I am sticking to what the British Gas and National Grid Engineers informed me and I had 3 witnesses there too. However I am now unsure how to take this a step further and who else to submit a letter of dispute to. Could anyone please help me with this matter?

Cardew

There is a difference between 'good practice' and 'statutory requirement' - also acceptable practice when the gas main was laid, might not meet today's regulations.

I would certainly write to National Grid but suspect you will be better requesting the bill to be waived/reduced as a goodwill gesture rather than 'standing up for your rights' - especially as National Grid have only recently taken over the gas grid and they wouldn't have laid the pipe.

gas4you

I don't know the regs about the depth that NG have to bury their incoming mains to, but normally any gas pipe work that has traffic over it should be a minimum of 375mm, whilst any pipe work under a path or pedestrian area has to be a minimum of 40mm.

At the end of the day, what has happened to you is why we all have to pay a fortune for liabilty insurance.

Does your buildings insurance cover you for this under any accidental damage sections?

Gman0365

The following depths are to be used as guidance only:

Gas main in roadway - 750mm cover
Gas main in footpath - 600mm cover
Gas service in roadway/footpath - 450mm cover
Gas service in private property - 375mm cover.

Before using a mechanical excavator trial holes should have been made to check for services. Utility drawings should have been obtained. Safe digging practices should be used at all times and in particular where there is uncertainty over the presence of utility plant.

National Grid will refer you to HSE guidance document HS(G) 47. You should take a look at it here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg47.pdf

Look at it from National Grids point of view - regardless of the depth of the pipe it wasn't leaking before you damaged it and therefore you have to pay for the repair.

The poor information that has been provided by the National Grid employee is in contradiction with industry practice which is to pursue all damage claims.

spiro

You say 'gas main', do you mean 'gas main' - feeds lots of houses or 'gas service' - feeds your house from gas main because as stated the depth is different for the 2.

Hucky

The pipe was under a footpath leading to my front door which was also bent round from the drive probably to avoid 3 concrete steps so I guess it's called the gas suppy/service pipe.

We didn't really want to go on the house insurance as there would be an excess to pay.

When the Engineers told us it had been previously incorrectly installed and to write a letter and submit photographs they said the office pass it on and it gets passed on and on to different sections where they eventually drop the case. But we don't know who else to contact to pursue the matter.

spiro

Given that it was a gas service pipe and was under a footpath then I think they will say its your fault.

Was the digger driver a professional driver working under his own direction or was it a self drive? If it was a professional driver then he should have taken resonable precautions against hitting pipes/cables.

RHYSDAD

At the risk of sounding like an old stick in the mud, YOUR actions (nee the digger driver's) damaged a pipe that was perfectly serviceable until 'Dave's digga's' came bumbling along and ruined it. Why not just take responsibility for it and pay up? I presume had your neighbour's car been damaged by said digger operator you would pay him (or maybe you'd argue that he hadn't parked the regulation 42mm away and therefore it's HIS fault) for any damage caused? This is the trouble, it's always someone else's responsibility.......

Hucky

I am only following the advice of the Engineers which was that it had been previously incorrectly installed and that we should send in a complaint that will eventually get lost in the system.

JC_Derby

Ive skimmed this.
Some questions - who was driving the mini digger?was it yourself or a mate or someone from the plant hire company. - If it was someone from the plany hire company did they also provide a banksman?
If it was yourself or a family friend
Had you asked for plans from NGT, had you dug trial holes to expose utility services.
you quote the depth as being 75-100mm. The pipe may have been installed below this depth and ground level taken away.
Gman has pretty much covered everything.
If you (or a friend) were driving the digger, then you are liable for this damage. NGT will take the view that if you are capable of hiring and driving a minidigger then you should be experienced enough to avoid damaging services. As has been stated depth is irrelevant here it is only a guideline.
the original engineer was incorrect to have said what he did.

If you have hired a company to dig footings or do the excavation, then they are liable not you. You should put this in your response to NGT. said company will be covered by insurance

C_Mababejive

There is nothing to debate.

Damage was caused to NGs infrastructure by the actions taking place on your premises. NG send you a bill for that damage,you need to either..

pass that bill onto the contractors who damaged it,if any as they should have liability insurance

pass it on to your household insurance co

pay it yourself in £££

Thats it,simples.

No one does anything for nothing any more.