CAB questions perhaps a mis-sold mortgage by NR

Senior_Paper_Monitor

'normally' except for tens of thousands (guess) of 'Together' products sold by Northern Rock and many thousands (guess) of Coventry 'Moregage' products sold to all and sundry under what was then an unlimited forecast of house price increases and accepted by many people just like you (my boss sold loads of both of them and as far as we know not one of them has ever fallen over).

My point is that linking this action immediately with the term 'missold' is not a valid assumption - and demonstrates the lack of 'real world' knowledge of your CAB 'adviser'.

At this point I have expressed my opinion (several times), made my suggestion (several times) and am withdrawing from the discussion before I start to throw things from the pram.

InMyDreams

What do you think they should have done? The alternative would have been to refuse you the loan. Would you be in a better position now if they had? What were your other options at the time re the debt you consolidated?

ESO1967

I agree and will get an appointment with someone to get some advise as it seems that CAB maynot be all that they seem, I really will take your advise on board and thank you for it.
When you go and see the experts (CAB) you think you are getting sound advice (who am I kidding)
You certainly know your stuff (compliment) and I am sorry for putting i-cons in the wrong places...I am a newbie to this and still getting the hang of it I did'nt know that the i-cons were ment that way, will certainly be careful in future.
Maybe my usage of the i-cons made me look like I was thrilled at the prospect of maybe lookng to get on the band wagon (which to be honest I couls do without cos its just another dilema to a very difficult life as it is)

Many thanks to you all (and I mean that)

ESO1967

I to will stop as I have taken all that you have said on board and will leave it at that and in future make sure I check and check again before I jump, I'm certainly glad I came on here and asked ....
Thank you
ESO

2sides2everystory

The CAB see plenty ESO.

They know Northern Rock caused a lot of grief.

Members of my extended family weren't so different to you perhaps ... a total £150,000 mortgage for a couple of manual workers who couldn't believe their luck that they could buy the little nest using a mortgage which is damn near double any mortgage I and my wife ever took even when we had serious salaries.

Of course these 120%-125% mortgages were missold. It was the same corporate greed as any other misselling. It's just that no critical mass of Northern Rock complainers has brought the new house down yet. You'll remember the old one fell down and we are all supposed to keep the new one standing so it can be sold again, right?

In my extended family I know of two hardworking bankrupts who have struggled like hell for the last two years and will no doubt not be out of the woods for a while yet.

It has hurt the elders in their part of the family because they cannot understand how such stupid deals could be pushed on young people for first mortgages which were so sensitive to small movements in interest rates. They have had to bail out the youngsters in many ways, accommodation, car repairs, baby clothes, nappies, sweat, tears - if not blood, but it was for their blood.

Meantime with the keys having been handed back soon after the mortgage became unaffordable and a baby came along, £50,000 disappears where when the property got sold to someone else at a knock down price?

Nowhere really, because this was always sub-prime business and it was monopoly money with the profits being drawn out in other ways (some they won and some they lost and many they just didn't take the risk at all because they sold it on), except as you are still in your NR deal you might be paying too much in interest towards the whole fiasco, that is unless your house has gone up in value and you can conclude it was all worth the risk.

It is a dirty business, and you may come here for "advice" and note that one industry person with a fancy IFA signature that you may also note disclaims advice in these forums, and who just the other day disclosed that he earns a quarter million a year because he owns a company where others make it for him - yes, he tells you there was nothing wrong with the deal, and that those lesser mortals dealing every month with hundreds of cr*p situations at the CAB put around myths, - then you may note too that a supporting act of other nay sayers piles in to back him up - but you do not have to let it sway you too far from where you came in which was closer to the truth than this thread had managed by post #23. The fact is that a lot of the people at CAB work a bloody sight harder for their living than people still in financial services.

I am sorry dunstonh and the rest of you, but the truth is that the deal was obviously wrong, but the saddest truth is that there probably isn't enough inertia at the moment to get anyone to easily accept it and to open the gates to paying the millions in compensation to those whose lives were dented or destroyed by NR.

Don't ever trust anyone in financial services - not for a minute, ever.
They are all rewarded in ways which lack accountability for the results customers need or expect, and which gradually entice even the fairest of them to leave true morality a long way back in the grand scheme of the things they believe in. They believe in profit first, if not for themselves directly, then for their employer. They believe if they make sure of that, everything else will nicely comply because there's rules, and they follow them to the letter. Look where that has taken us.

One of the things they believe in ESO is the house they inhabit. They come here and in this week where everyone is questioning misselling because the banks have finally owned up to it big time, they see it as necessary to massage the threads to stop the whole damn house of cards from falling (which I happen to think it is still in danger of doing and I don't mean NR, but I don't have a qualification for it so I am one lone unqualified voice at the end of your thread - but I do have a view).

The industry hasn't improved in my lifetime, it has got ten times worse, and I don't expect it to improve now.

dunstonh

It is a dirty business, and you may come here for "advice" and note that one industry person with a fancy IFA signature that you may also note disclaims advice in these forums, and who just the other day disclosed that he earns a quarter million a year because he owns a company where others make it for him - yes, he tells you there was nothing wrong with the deal, and that those lesser mortals dealing every month with hundreds of cr*p situations at the CAB put around myths, - then you may note too that a supporting act of other nay sayers piles in to back him up - but you do not have to let it sway you too far from where you came in which was closer to the truth than this thread had managed by post #23.

Its such a shame that jealously clouds your judgement.

I am sorry dunstonh and the rest of you, but the truth is that the deal was obviously wrong, but the saddest truth is that there probably isn't enough inertia at the moment to get anyone to easily accept it and to open the gates to paying the millions in compensation to those whose lives were dented or destroyed by NR.

The deal was a disaster for NR. However, that is what they offered. That is what people chose to buy. If they made an informed choice then so be it. They had access to a solicitor if they wanted to use one. Did the solicitor put them off?

However, to assume they were all mis-sold is just plain wrong.

2sides2everystory

dunstonh, I feel a little sorry for you in resorting to the jealousy tag just because I highlighted your unusual disclosure of an unusually high income which you inexplicably waved under our noses the other day. Really I do. You know very little about what motivates me or what I do but your position in the forum lately sometimes seems (by no means not always) like you are playing God.

Perhaps you make judgements that people like ESO are better off being reassured with a gentle pat on the head, than in knowing that someone wronged them but there isn't a very good chance at the moment of them doing anything about it.

If so, it is a kind of fatherly way which some may agree is best, but those of us with mortgages are all adults here, some wronged more than others. A few not wronged at all - usually those of us with a bit of inside knowledge.

I can't sit here whilst on behalf of your industry you persuade someone like ESO to effectively just run along / nothing wrong.

PS The solicitor thing - you know jolly well that a conveyancing solicitor just feeds off the financial services industry like almost all solicitors one way or another - they have never seen it as even a tiny part of their role to advise on whether an incredible loan offer is too rich for a poor man to digest. They aren't GPs now are they?

opinions4u

Of course these 120%-125% mortgages were missold. It was the same corporate greed as any other misselling. It's just that no critical mass of Northern Rock complainers has brought the new house down yet. You'll remember the old one fell down and we are all supposed to keep the new one standing so it can be sold again, right?

Most of these mortgages became part of NRAM. There is little hope of them being sold. Any mis-selling liability remains with NRAM. Not any future owner of the "good bank" Northern Rock.

haras_nosirrah

The only problem with your argument 2sides is that they were refinancing i.e. they already owed the unsecured debt and a previous mortgage.

If we take the 100k house scenario as an example

95k mortgage at say 6% over say 25 years = £612 a month
top up of 25k (to take to 120%) at 6% over 25 years = £161
total commitment = £773

As an alternative had they not refinanced and had that 25k on loans and credit cards they would have maybe been looking at a much higher monthly repayment which maybe they were looking at refinancing as they couldn't afford to pay. 25k on a 5 year loan for example would be around £500 a month, 25k of credit card debt would have a min payment of £700 a month - and then they would still have the mortgage payment making a monthly repayment of circa £1100 - £1300 a month. By switching - yes they could have paid the debt off quicker but they also would have had to pay many extra hundreds of pounds a month which I am assuming they couldn't afford.

Northern Rock would have been missold if they hadn't had the extra debt and they were told - we can get you an extra 25k to go and spend on a car or similar. This would have been bad advice.

However if they already owed the debt and by bringing down the monthly payments it stopped them defaulting on everything then it wouldn't have been bad advice. Without knowing the figures from the op it is impossible to say.

magpiecottage

ESO1967 wrote: »

re-mortgaging to pay off exsisting debt this way is wrong advise by our broker and NR

If you used a broker then Northern Rock did not advise you and whilst the lending policy might be commercially suspect, it did not missell the loans to you.

this was a re-mortgage at the time to clear debt, is the words re-financing the same ?

Yes it is refinancing. If you are now struggling again, it suggests that your broker was attempting to get you out of a hole but you have now fallen back into it.

It is not his fault that his attempt failed and it would be churlish to attempt to blame him for it.

Your CAB person does not seem to understand how the product works.