dog problems

ladymarmalade1970

If this were me i would tell the Terrier off when it hurts the lurcher, separate them and pay lots of attention to the lurcher. I would ignore the terrier for a bit. Praise it loads when it's good with the lurcher and give them both treats.
You need to find something you are happy with (doesn't matter what as long as it's not cruel) and be consistent. This is the key.
Whatever you decide to do just do it every time your terrier is not nice.
You have to get it sorted because you don't want the lurcher retaliating. If you can't get it sorted within a couple of months then i would agree with the poster who says rehome one. It's not fair on either dog.

foxwales

The dominance theory has not been debunked and that site you posted holds very little merit or integrity in it's claims.

Dogs are pack animals with a distinct social hierarchy, just because dogs have been domesticated does not mean they lose these social behaviours.

Many popular and experienced dog behaviourists use dominance control to teach their dogs, being all soft and lovey dover with a dog is a waste of time.

Only during the early years praise and affection training works well, but for older dogs who are clearly exhibiting signs of dominance, you can't give it treats and hope for the best!

walwin

foxwales wrote: »

Many popular and experienced dog behaviourists use dominance control to teach their dogs, being all soft and lovey dover with a dog is a waste of time.

I've seen some of these so called dog behaviourists who use dominance control and I wouldn't let any of them loose on a stuffed toy :mad:

undaunted

It may take time but I believe you can teach these dogs to co exist happily together (if they were seriously intent on fighting you'd have had greater problems than it seems from your post you have!) so please don't let the doom mongers push you into giving up so soon.

Personally I wouldn't leave them alone together until they've bedded in for a time & am not entirely a fan of dominance theories but I believe there is something in what Foxwales said of "show your displeasure" (firm but fair a well timed / placed no / leave / diversion should suffice to stop trouble starting) when she attacks the other dog & ensuring you reward good behaviour when they are playing / socialising well together

ladymarmalade1970

walwin wrote: »

I've seen some of these so called dog behaviourists who use dominance control and I wouldn't let any of them loose on a stuffed toy :mad:

I agree with this. If i were to go with the dominance theory then every time my dog leans on me he is showing his dominance. Every time he comes and licks my hand then i should ignore him as it's him demanding my attention.
I am also very wary of people that site dominance as a reason for every bad behaviour.
Every dog is different and you have to find what works for your dog.

foxwales

ladymarmalade1970 wrote: »

I agree with this. If i were to go with the dominance theory then every time my dog leans on me he is showing his dominance. Every time he comes and licks my hand then i should ignore him as it's him demanding my attention.
I am also very wary of people that site dominance as a reason for every bad behaviour.
Every dog is different and you have to find what works for your dog.

A dog sitting by your side or licking you is not a sign of dominance or attention, this is social bonding which keeps a pack together.

Dominance behaviour training is not about being nasty to your dog or beating it into submission, it's about clearly drawing boundaries which your dog can understand.

It's why you can train dogs and not cats, because dogs have social skills from pack behaviour.

WeirdoMagnet

@ameliarate - to teach your dogs to live together, I'd 'manage' them so you can prevent the terrier practicing her behaviour - be it by using dog gates, a crate or maybe have one or both on a lead, and then when they are together, you are able to praise them both when they are good. You've already identified times when the terrier 'goes for' the lurcher, so I'd keep them apart when you know the behaviour is likely to happen.

@foxwales - David Mech, who's paper on wolf behaviour in 1970 popularised dominance theory in dogs corrected his theory in a subsequent paper in 1999. There is also a really good article here in which Mech states:

Rather than viewing a wolf pack as a group of animals organized with a “top dog” that fought its way to the top, or a male-female pair of such aggressive wolves, science has come to understand that most wolf packs are merely family groups formed exactly the same way as human families are formed.

When we first got our dog I looked into the dominance theory in some depth, and as far as I can remember the thinking is that:

• Dogs are not wolves.
• Dogs know that humans are not dogs - as you say they have their own social heirarchy but that does not include humans.
• Naturally humans are 'leaders' as we decide when the dog/s eat, when they sleep, when they play etc.
• Using 'dominance' appears to work because it introduces guidelines/rules where before there were none.

You seem to be a bit derogatory towards those who use positive training methods. Using positive, non-dominance training methods does not mean being permissive, or handing out treats willy-nilly! ;)With positive training, you can teach an old dog new tricks, and you can train cats too!

ladymarmalade1970

Georgina wrote: »

@ameliarate - to teach your dogs to live together, I'd 'manage' them so you can prevent the terrier practicing her behaviour - be it by using dog gates, a crate or maybe have one or both on a lead, and then when they are together, you are able to praise them both when they are good. You've already identified times when the terrier 'goes for' the lurcher, so I'd keep them apart when you know the behaviour is likely to happen.

@foxwales - David Mech, who's paper on wolf behaviour in 1970 popularised dominance theory in dogs corrected his theory in a subsequent paper in 1999. There is also a really good article here in which Mech states:

When we first got our dog I looked into the dominance theory in some depth, and as far as I can remember the thinking is that:

• Dogs are not wolves.
• Dogs know that humans are not dogs - as you say they have their own social heirarchy but that does not include humans.
• Naturally humans are 'leaders' as we decide when the dog/s eat, when they sleep, when they play etc.
• Using 'dominance' appears to work because it introduces guidelines/rules where before there were none.

You seem to be a bit derogatory towards those who use positive training methods. Using positive, non-dominance training methods does not mean being permissive, or handing out treats willy-nilly! ;)With positive training, you can teach an old dog new tricks, and you can train cats too!

I wasn't aware that dominance followers use not positive training methods. Are you talking about alpha rolls and the like?
I don't like dominance theory because as you said, dogs seem to know we aren't dogs and also, i don't want to ignore my dog when i haven't seen him for ages etc. Mine don't care if we eat first or they do.
I did look into it quite a bit when we rescued our rottie but now take it all with a pinch of salt.

WeirdoMagnet

ladymarmalade1970 wrote: »

I wasn't aware that dominance followers use not positive training methods. Are you talking about alpha rolls and the like?

I'm sure some who believe the dominance theory use some positive methods too. My comment was directed at foxwales as he/she seemed to imply that you either follow dominance, or the lovey-dovey, feed 'em treats approach!

There are escalating versions of the dominance theory - the eat before the dog, go through doors before the dog - style, which can escalate to the alpha-rolls etc you mention.

undaunted

Georgina wrote: »

There are escalating versions of the dominance theory - the eat before the dog, go through doors before the dog - style, which can escalate to the alpha-rolls etc you mention.

To my mind here in lies the problem with some people's "dominance" theories. If you can "alpha roll" a dog that easily they are not that "dominant" & most certainly don't need to be treated in this fashion.

A truly "dominant" dog simply wouldn't put up with that & somebody could end up getting badly hurt if they listen to such advice. Even Milan (virtually a god to some people) get's bitten at times attempting such things so what chance has "the mere mortals" amongst us? :rotfl: