HSBC Overdrawn fine when I didn't have that option of a overdraft!

genevieve_autumn

I monitor my account regularly on-line and as a result I have not been overdrawn in the past, as the bank will see from looking at my previous account statements. However, I was not able to monitor my account as the internet connection I use to access my account was down for over two days.
Prior to March my current account did not have an overdraft facility and therefore it was not possible to be overdrawn. If the funds in my current account were low, I would transfer money my self from my savings account into my current account; it could not be done automatically.
As the bank will see I have sufficient money in my flexi account and hence why I have never opted for an overdraft as I have always just made transfers between my accounts.
Therefore on those days when I did go overdrawn, I believed I had enough money in my account. I was never told by your bank that changes had been made to my account, which now meant my account could be overdrawn, nor was I asked for permission to allow these changes to be put into effect.

When i explain this to the bank they do not accept it and tell me every account had the option to go into overdrawn but that was simply not the case with my account, they do not accept that I simply couldn't make a transaction if I didn't have the money in my account which was the case.
Once my internet connection problems were resolved I immediately checked my bank account and after discovering that I was overdrawn, I contacted the bank by phone to query why these changes to my account had been made and to cancel them. I was told that I had to go into a bank and speak to the staff there, as changes to my account could not be made over the phone.
However, when I went into the bank I was told that I had to contact the bank over the phone as the changes could not be made in the bank, also their staff were not helpful but rude, not only did they object to my wish to make any changes to my account, which is my choice and which should have been respected but also they wouldn’t accept that in the past I did not have the option of going overdrawn or that I did not have an overdraft.
When I contacted the bank again on the phone on their staff’s advice I was again told that I had to go into the bank to make the changes. Once again I went into the bank and frustratingly once again I was told to contact the bank by the phone. I now believe their staff were purposely putting up obstacles to prevent me from making the above mentioned changes and kept me uninformed about the changes they had made so that you can unlawfully fine me.
I was also shocked when I was told that the change made to my account, which meant I could go overdrawn was made by the computer system itself and not an actual person. I do not believe this is true, as how can this be controlled?
Someone must have monitored these changes?
I am very disappointed with the service my bank has provided and how I have been treated, considering I have been a customer for over 5 years and it is making me question if I will remain with this bank.

I have now transferred all my money to a another bank but they have fined me £150 for going overdrawn and they have taken it out of my account and now I am overdrawn by that amount and I am sure they will fine me for that.

I don't want to pay the £150, can I win this fight? Any advice is appreciated.

the_insider

Every account has the possibility to go overdrawn, it usually depends on the type of transaction that you have authorised. If it's a card payment they have to honour it as you will have left the shop (for example) with the goods you paid for. If it's a Direct Debit then it might go out depending on the amount. Would you rather your bills were not paid just because you didn't have internet access?
Your best bet is to give up on this 'it never happened before so it can't happen now' campain and politely ask them to waive the fee as a first error and in light of your previously good conduct.

genevieve_autumn

But that's just it, if I was in a shop and didn't have any money in my account, the transaction could not be made, the same with a bill, the money could not be taken out of my account. If I had a bill to pay and didn't have the money in my account, my account never went overdrawn, I simply couldn't pay that bill. That's why I am frustrated because now I can go overdrawn when I didn't have that option before.

dunstonh

Prior to March my current account did not have an overdraft facility and therefore it was not possible to be overdrawn.

The lack of an authorised overdraft facility does not prevent you from going overdrawn.

Therefore on those days when I did go overdrawn, I believed I had enough money in my account. I was never told by your bank that changes had been made to my account, which now meant my account could be overdrawn, nor was I asked for permission to allow these changes to be put into effect.

It is your responsibility to control your spending and know what is going in or out of your account. By issuing a transaction that takes you over your limit, you are in effect asking for the bank to make a decision to pay it or not.

When i explain this to the bank they do not accept it

They are correct. Your assumptions are wrong.

I was also shocked when I was told that the change made to my account, which meant I could go overdrawn was made by the computer system itself and not an actual person. I do not believe this is true, as how can this be controlled?

It is true and has been for many years. A human can overrule the computer but the decisions are largely computer made based on how you run your account.

I am very disappointed with the service my bank has provided and how I have been treated, considering I have been a customer for over 5 years and it is making me question if I will remain with this bank.

Your disappointment seems to be due mostly to a lack of understanding and having incorrect assumptions.

I have now transferred all my money to a another bank but they have fined me £150 for going overdrawn and they have taken it out of my account and now I am overdrawn by that amount and I am sure they will fine me for that.

They have not fined you. They have charged you for using an unauthorised overdraft facility. Perhaps you should have stayed at the old bank who would probably have been more tolerant with your track record.

I don't want to pay the £150, can I win this fight? Any advice is appreciated.

It is up to the bank whether they refund it or not as a goodwill gesture. If they refuse then there is nothing you can do. Most banks will give a refund on first error if you have been with them for a while. They are less likely if you failing to run your account correctly if you have only just joined them.

But that's just it, if I was in a shop and didn't have any money in my account, the transaction could not be made,

Another incorrect assumption. Not all transactions are checked against your balance. Also they may not be aware of other transactions which are in pipeline but yet to go through (not everything gets earmarked).

antrobus

genevieve_autumn wrote: »

But that's just it, if I was in a shop and didn't have any money in my account, the transaction could not be made ....

Well yes, it could as it happens. If you take goods worth £9.99 to the cashdesk of a shop and offer your debit card as payment, then the presumption would be that you had at least £9.99 in your account to pay for them. It's possible, depending on such things as how much you're spending, and where you're spending it, that the box of tricks at the retailer end might well double check with the box of tricks at the banking end to confirm that you do; but that's only to protect the bank from getting stuffed, not to help you manage your account.

genevieve_autumn

I forgot all about this post and how negative people were in response telling me I would never win in my fight against HSBC.


I did complain, they apologised and said they were at fault and removed my fine as well as compensating me.


I then left them straight afterwards and moved onto another bank that provided a better service.


So it does pay to fight and complain against unfair treatment!

genevieve_autumn

dunstonh wrote: »

The lack of an authorised overdraft facility does not prevent you from going overdrawn.



It is your responsibility to control your spending and know what is going in or out of your account. By issuing a transaction that takes you over your limit, you are in effect asking for the bank to make a decision to pay it or not.



They are correct. Your assumptions are wrong.



It is true and has been for many years. A human can overrule the computer but the decisions are largely computer made based on how you run your account.



Your disappointment seems to be due mostly to a lack of understanding and having incorrect assumptions.



They have not fined you. They have charged you for using an unauthorised overdraft facility. Perhaps you should have stayed at the old bank who would probably have been more tolerant with your track record.



It is up to the bank whether they refund it or not as a goodwill gesture. If they refuse then there is nothing you can do. Most banks will give a refund on first error if you have been with them for a while. They are less likely if you failing to run your account correctly if you have only just joined them.



Another incorrect assumption. Not all transactions are checked against your balance. Also they may not be aware of other transactions which are in pipeline but yet to go through (not everything gets earmarked).

Good thing I didn't listen to you as I would never have got HSBC to admit they were at fault and should never have done what they did, hence why they removed the fine.

[Deleted User]

Thanks for informing us, SIX YEARS LATER, that the Bank refunded the charges. I'm afraid I find it hard to believe that they admitted any liability and I suspect any refund would certainly have been a goodwill gesture.

Nothing in your recent posts here contradicts what you were told six years ago, as far as I can see;

Dunston_six_years_ago wrote:

It is up to the bank whether they refund it or not as a goodwill gesture.Most banks will give a refund on first error if you have been with them for a while.

Nasqueron

genevieve_autumn wrote: »

I forgot all about this post and how negative people were in response telling me I would never win in my fight against HSBC.


I did complain, they apologised and said they were at fault and removed my fine as well as compensating me.


I then left them straight afterwards and moved onto another bank that provided a better service.


So it does pay to fight and complain against unfair treatment!

You were not unfairly treated. The charge (not a fine) was for breach of terms of account. The new bank will do the same if you have an unauthorised overdraft - they do not manage your individual account to the second and to the penny, if you try and spend and go over the system will still process the transaction and then notice later you were over and issue the charge. There is a caveat that some now give you a little leeway to add funds to avoid a charge if you go over and give you a warning.

However, as you were told at the time, a first offence may result in a refund if you ask nicely

genevieve_autumn

They did admit they were in the wrong because I had a account that did not come with a overdraft and they explained that their computer system changed my account to one with a overdraft as they thought I'd want that. However, I was never informed of this change to my account, which is what they should have done. Hence why they apologised and removed the charges against me.

genevieve_autumn

Nasqueron wrote: »

You were not unfairly treated. The charge (not a fine) was for breach of terms of account. The new bank will do the same if you have an unauthorised overdraft - they do not manage your individual account to the second and to the penny, if you try and spend and go over the system will still process the transaction and then notice later you were over and issue the charge. There is a caveat that some now give you a little leeway to add funds to avoid a charge if you go over and give you a warning.

However, as you were told at the time, a first offence may result in a refund if you ask nicely

As they changed the terms of the contract and did not inform me, I do think that is unfair treatment and they did realise it was wrong of them to do this without letting me know the contract had changed. They explained that the computer system changed my account and should not have happened, not at least without myself being updated.


lol and I didn't ask nicely as I was very frustrated that they could change the terms of my contract and they not inform me of this, which made me very suspicious of the bank and hence why I lost my faith in them.


With my new bank they informed me of whether my account has a overdraft or not and what the limits are, with HSBC I had a account that had no overdraft, so I could only ever spend what was in my account and it did not have the function for me to go in debit. Then the computer system, their words not mine, changed this so that I could go into debit and because they had not informed me of this, no overdraft was set up and so I was not aware of this and when I did go into debit, it led to me having charges against me.


They did admit they were in fault for not informing me of the change and they said it is something they are addressing, hence why they removed the charges against me but with the trust in them lost, that is why I left them.