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Owed Money by a Company that Reopened Under a New Name
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Noospheric
Posts: 56 Forumite
I have a CCJ against a company I used to work for. I got a high enforcement officer to attempt to recover what was owed but the company stated they were due to close down because of a lack of business.
They did state on their website the company had closed down but I know for a fact they are still taking money from clients.
Today I found out they have opened a business doing exactly the same type of work, in the same premises but under a different name.
I got my CCJ almost a year ago and the company I worked for was a Limited company. I can't find this new company on Companies House.
Is there anything I can do to get what I am owed?
They did state on their website the company had closed down but I know for a fact they are still taking money from clients.
Today I found out they have opened a business doing exactly the same type of work, in the same premises but under a different name.
I got my CCJ almost a year ago and the company I worked for was a Limited company. I can't find this new company on Companies House.
Is there anything I can do to get what I am owed?
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Comments
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Sounds as though they are separate legal entities. If you worked for a limited company you would be able to find that company on the Companies House searchable register. Can you find a record of it? If not, are you sure it was an English limited company? Check whether the new "company" is a trading name. If it is a trading name of a limited company that company will be on the register. If it has the same company number as your former employer, it is the same legal entity. Take it from there.
If it is not the same limited company, I don't believe you have a chance of getting satisfaction from the CCJ.0 -
Thanks anamenottaken,
I found the new company on companies house. I don't expect to get anything from the CCJ but is it really so easy just to close a company and open another up doing the exact same thing minus the debt they had?
Is it legal to just do this and continue with the same clients?0 -
Noospheric wrote: »Thanks anamenottaken,
I found the new company on companies house. I don't expect to get anything from the CCJ but is it really so easy just to close a company and open another up doing the exact same thing minus the debt they had?
Is it legal to just do this and continue with the same clients?
Assuming they liquidated the first company what they have done is totally legal unfortunately.
The only thing you could look for is if any of the Directors of the original company have been struck off (usually for serious mismanagement) and if they are also Directors or have day to day involvement of the new business - this would be illegal.:j Proud Member of Mike's Mob :j0 -
Report them to the Companies Investigation Branch - a govt agency.
http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/cib/
They cannot help you recover your money but they would be interested in a 'phoenix' company (one that goes under and then resurrects in another name) as this is part of their remit.
Make it clear that you are reporting them for possible irregularities and shared assets, client base etc and not that you simply want your money back.
Good luck.:hello:0 -
Noospheric wrote: »Thanks anamenottaken,
I found the new company on companies house. I don't expect to get anything from the CCJ but is it really so easy just to close a company and open another up doing the exact same thing minus the debt they had?
Is it legal to just do this and continue with the same clients?
If they owed you money, you could have objected to the striking off of the company. If the company was still taking money after you obtained the CCJ, you should have applied again to the courts for enforcement ... but sometimes some people just don't like paying their bills.
There's nothing illegal with setting up a new company and serving the same customers. However, customers may be reluctant to pay up front for goods or services if they know a previous company run by the same crowd offering the same service got into financial difficulties.
Similarly, it would be an unwise supplier to supply goods or services to such a new company unless payment is made up front - it's happened before and it may well happen again
And with the resultant cash flow issues that are bound to arise under such circumstances, the rapid demise of this new company sounds almost certain."Now to trolling as a concept. .... Personally, I've always found it a little sad that people choose to spend such a large proportion of their lives in this way but they do, and we have to deal with it." - MSE Forum Manager 6th July 20100 -
Thanks folks,
The company did not liquidate, they were struck off and then dissolved.
How do I find out if a director was struck off?
This new company is not under the same director but is run by somebody who had shares in the original company and I believe the previous director is working for this new company.
The people that work in this building are very dodgy, I could list about ten companies that have operated from that address, all under just two different people.
Unfortunately, I wasn't made aware that I could object to the striking off until it was already done.
Thanks for your help.0 -
This is known as a 'phoenix company' and is not allowed.
In certain circumstances, you are allowed to 'pierce the corporate veil' which means that any debts/judgments are applied to the person not the company; it's the one exception to the rule that companies are separate legal entities and is designed to prevent exactly the situation you describe here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil0 -
By the way: you should probably speak to CAB to get advice on this. If someone winds up a company and then reopens doing the same business to the same customers but just under a different name then I'm fairly certain that Jones v Lipman indicates you would be able to enforce the original judgment against the directors if you so applied in court.
Worth getting legal advice on this one, but I'm reasonably confident you have a good argument.0 -
Thanks bunglejemson,
this is all very interesting information and it's a shame nobody I took advice from in the past made me aware of this (CAB/County Court/High Court Enforcement Officer)
I will read up on this tonight and take further advice from CAB.
Thanks again.0 -
Noospheric wrote: »Thanks bunglejemson,
this is all very interesting information and it's a shame nobody I took advice from in the past made me aware of this (CAB/County Court/High Court Enforcement Officer)
I will read up on this tonight and take further advice from CAB.
Thanks again.
Don't get your hopes up too much though - this is more of interest for HMRC or Companies House who will take a dim view of their actions; I'm not sure how it applies to individuals seeking to enforce a debt against a person rather than a company.
I suspect it is possible but that you'll need to go back to court to make an application and that there will be some cost involved to this (which - should you be successful - you can reclaim from the other side) but obviously that might take a while and you may never get that money back.0
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