help with this huge fraud

nearlyhomeless

geoffky wrote: »

jesus mate,if i was you i would be doing a runner myself...let it all happen...let them sort it out themselves.....have a good life away from the stress.

to be honest i might just apply for a accomodation student loan and run

nearlyhomeless

jamesd wrote: »

The vital part is "stole my mothers bank card" even though he knew the PIN. Read financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/91/91-family-disputes.htm"]case 91/4 at the Financial Ombudsman Service[/URL] page. She can make a formal complaint to the bank and to Wonga and inform both that she intends to take the matter to the FOS, referring them to FOS decision 91/4 and the fact that her card was stolen, not used with her consent.

She should not need to take the matter up with the police.

"Dear Bank,

My card was stolen and used without my consent. Please refer to FOS decision 91/4 for guidance on how this matter will be handled if it becomes necessary to take the matter to the FOS. Please review the unauthorised use of my card to borrow money from my account, your obligations under consumer credit law for borrowing done without consent of the account holder and your obligations in case of fraud and resolve this matter. If you do not agree that you are the victim of fraud and obliged to expeditiously return my money please send me a final decision and notification of my right to take the matter to the FOS and I will do that."

"Dear Wonga,

My card was stolen and used without my consent. I'm sorry that you are the victim of fraud but since I am not and never have been your customer please seek payment from the person who borrowed from you, not from me.

In the event that you decline to do so please send me a final decision notice and notification of my right to take the matter to the FOS, which I will do.

It may assist you to review FOS decision 91/4 for guidance on how the FOS is likely to handle this situation."

For the bank the consumer credit law is significant. It provides extra protection if money is taken out of an account to place it into an overdraft that you don't get if money is taken from a positive balance.

Don't send lots of letters or argue about it. Simply make the complaint, ask them to resolve it and take the matter to the FOS if they don't.

Are you sure of this, ive tried telling them on the phone and they angrily tell me i need to tell the police etc... wonga have backed off for the second but i think they will be back with the bailiffs sooner or later

jamesd

Just read the FOS decision I linked to. It covers taking money with a stolen card when a family member knows the PIN. You've nothing at all to lose by going down this route and it's a lot easier than her having to involve the police.

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

In a word - if she won't press charges the bank will not refund.

She isn't the crime victim. Wonga and the bank are. It's up to them to do any charge placing. They are just trying to dodge paying the money back to avoid a loss of their own. No need to play that game, the FOS will resolve the matter.

dmg24

jamesd wrote: »

The vital part is "stole my mothers bank card" even though he knew the PIN. Read case 91/4 at the Financial Ombudsman Service page. She can make a formal complaint to the bank and to Wonga and inform both that she intends to take the matter to the FOS, referring them to FOS decision 91/4 and the fact that her card was stolen, not used with her consent.

The consumer was held to be liable for any transactions once he realised that his daughter had been stealing. In the OP's case the family were aware that the son had been involved with criminal activity, so it could be argued that they should have been more careful. I can see that the cases are similar, but there is certainly scope for a different result in this case.

RuthnJasper

What a very sad situation for all concerned. I am sorry for you, nearly... .

Regrettably, as someone else mentioned above, the fact that your mother gave your brother the PIN may make things complicated. After all, the lenders would not necessarily make the distinction between your mother herself borrowing the money and your brother doing it "on her behalf" if the correct PIN was used.

It sounds like you are doing the best that you can to try and resolve your situation - but please do look after yourself as well. I know it's hard, but try not to let the thoughtless actions of your brothers and your mother's unwillingness to settle the matter reasonably bring YOU down and ruin YOUR life too. Hypothetically speaking, if it were me in this situation and I'd laboured long and hard to solve the problem, I don't know how I'd cope when the (probably) inevitable happens and the thieving and piece-of-cr+p brothers are welcomed back with joy and open arms by your mother. I always find it particularly upsetting when crimes are committed against parents by their own offspring (or, indeed, vice versa).

(that said, JamesD and DMG speak much sense - hope you feel able to pursue the avenues that they suggest).

Nearly..., from what you have posted you sound like a decent person who would be a credit to any parent or sibling. I think that you do need to make sure that you are looking after yourself and your OWN future, as well as your mother's concerns.

Good luck to you. I hope life starts to look up for you very soon. xx

mo786uk

jamesd wrote: »

Just read the FOS decision I linked to. It covers taking money with a stolen card when a family member knows the PIN. You've nothing at all to lose by going down this route and it's a lot easier than her having to involve the police.

She isn't the crime victim. Wonga and the bank are. It's up to them to do any charge placing. They are just trying to dodge paying the money back to avoid a loss of their own. No need to play that game, the FOS will resolve the matter.

Going to the FOS is playing the long game - they are currently taking like 6 months to resolve cases (and possibly more becaus eof all this PPI crap)

A lot of hassle and stress could be caused in the meantime.


IMO time is running out to grass up the brother - it might get to the stage where the police wont even believe her - which will mean the mother is lumbered with the debt.

pogofish

nearlyhomeless wrote: »

the thing is i cant get her to go anywhere near the police station and she barely speaks english

They will come to you, informally if you ask and can arrange an interpreter.

paddyrg

Your mother probably isn't a "stupid woman" per se., but guessing that if she doesn't speak a lot of English, her understanding and values were from a very different culture - and being a first generation immigrant with poor local language, a deceased husband, 2 criminal sons, and a paranoia about police (perhaps the police in her birth country were notably corrupt?). I'm not surprised she is sticking her head in the sand hoping it will all go away!

What can you do? Tough one. Move out for sure, protect your stuff and concentrate on your studies more, keep forging your own life. Doesn't sound like home is really ideal for study. Is she religeous? Can a minister from her faith have a chat with her, or go with her to the police? Or some other respected 'elder' within her culture?

jonesMUFCforever

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

In a word - if she won't press charges the bank will not refund.

Sorry if you have misinterpreted what I wrote - what I meant was that she needs to report the crime to the police and get a crime reference number - then let the police and bank get on with it.

nearlyhomeless

we had a crime reference number but theres this thing where you actually press charges that she just wont do, i have some jewelerry my grandparents left to me, a nice gaming pc, an iphone and an ipad, i had all these things valued and it comes up to around 1500 pounds, i think i will have to sell all these things to pay off her bank debt, as i just cant bare to leave my stupid mother. Then i will hav her close her bank account so my brother cant access any more money from that account, the card he stole no longer works but im sure hes noted down the account number and sort code and i think thats all you need to setup direct debits on the account and i dont want him stealing anymore money, now if i manage to pay this bank charges off, do you think i can avoid the payday loans altogether because they were demanding money back in febraury and i phoned up and told them the situation and that i informed the police, since then they have not contacted us again but i think they may do in the near future, last time they said a member of our investigation team will call you but no one ever did call back, once i sell all of my things here then i reallly would be on my last legs, the ipad and iphone are my best mates and he said he would let me sell it if i promised to pay him back with my student loan in september. I have tried arguing with the bank and said i would go to FOS but they said that could take up to a year and during that time they will keep chargin 5 pound per day everyday her account is overdrawn, and FOS said because we went to the police initially and did not actually press charges then things dont look good for us. I think i can make it work but only if i can avoid the wonga charges. Also i have a nagging feeling that wonga have just been increasing the amount of debt since febraury because i phoned them and said please dont send us anymore threatening letters as the police are doing there investigation and they said they would be doing there own investigation too but maybe they just listened to me when i said dont send anymore letters and they have since been raising the debt up and up during that time. Im also scared to phone them up and ask whats happening with there investigation because they might have forgotten about the debt but then if i phone them they will be reminded and start demanding there money back with heavy heavy interest. Im also scared that if i manage to pay off the bank fees then a few months go by with no troubles and all of a sudden 2 baillifs come knocking at the door and demand a ridicolous amount of money with no warning or anything. I think id just slit my wrists if that happened, i also have to come up with 150 pound monthly repayments for the amount of rent/council tax my stupid mother has gotten us into, every second of everyday i feel like im having a funking heart attack.