Council Tax Joint Liability?

Christoph_2

Good morning MSE!

This is my first post here, apologies if it's not in the right section.

I have a question about Council Tax, hopefully someone on these boards will be more helpful than the staff at my tax office!

I have recently recieved a council tax bill for a property I lived at in 2001, back when I was 19. I shared the property with two other tenants.

I am the only one of the three that the council have been able to track down, and they are telling me that because the other two cannot be traced, I am solely responsible for the entire £500+ bill.

Is this right? Surely I am only responsible for only a third of the bill? I have tried telling them this to no avail.

I have sent them a letter disputing this decision, and have had to pay nearly half of the bill today to a Civil Enforcement Agency/Bailiff to avoid losing any of my possesions. I have not yet recieved a reply.

Has this topic been covered before on here, or has anyone had this experience themselves?

Please help!

rjm2k1

Not sure but in the past when this kind of thing has happened to me, the council was happy to accept my portion of the bill and try to get the others for the rest. As far as the bailiff is concerned, afaik unless they have a warrent, they can't enter your property and take anything unless you invite them in, so you could have just kept the door shut and told them the issue was in dispute.

CIS

You fall under the rule of joint and several liability - each occupant is liable for 100% of the bill.

In our dept , normaly we will pursue for 100% rather than just a share - under thd law the decison to split the bill is between the occupants. As far as the council is concerned, you are each fully liable for the complete amount.

Where you a student ?, proof of a disregard for the period will absolve you of liability - I had this issue this morning and had to have our recovery staff withdraw a liability order as the the occupany we pursued (out of 5 in the property)proved that they where not liable with a student certificate - we will now attempt to pursue the other occupants, unles sthey can provide proof that they where disregraded or exempt.

rjm2k1

CIS wrote:

You fall under the rule of joint and several liability - each occupant is liable for 100% of the bill.

In our dept , normaly we will pursue for 100% rather than just a share - under thd law the decison to split the bill is between the occupants. As far as the council is concerned, you are each fully liable for the complete amount.

Where you a student ?, proof of a disregard for the period will absolve you of liability - I had this issue this morning and had to have our recovery staff withdraw a liability order as the the occupany we pursued (out of 5 in the property)proved that they where not liable with a student certificate - we will now attempt to pursue the other occupants, unles sthey can provide proof that they where disregraded or exempt.

Have the rules changed? When I was sharing a place it was clear from the guidelines for Leeds council that although students don't count when deciding if a property was liable for council tax, they were still jointly and severaly liable to pay any council tax which was actually due against the property. So a house with 1 student and 1 worker would be given the reduced rate, but both occupants still liable.

CIS

Have the rules changed? When I was sharing a place it was clear from the guidelines for Leeds council that although students don't count when deciding if a property was liable for council tax, they were still jointly and severaly liable to pay any council tax which was actually due against the property. So a house with 1 student and 1 worker would be given the reduced rate, but both occupants still liable.

Since 2004, a student cant be held liable with a non student, prior to that they could be - its been a long day and the I hadnt noticed the date as being 2001.

rjm2k1

CIS wrote:

Since 2004, a student cant be held liable with a non student, prior to that they could be - its been a long day and the I hadnt noticed the date as being 2001.

Yes, I see the Leeds website now lists this, so what happens if a landlord tells the first person to sign up for a HMO that they are putting working people in and then promptly fills the rest of the house with students, is the landlord liable too, or just the first poor sod who fell for the landlords lies?

CIS

In a HMO the landlord is always liable to pay any council tax due on the occupants.

hodgester

Christoph wrote:

Good morning MSE!

This is my first post here, apologies if it's not in the right section.

I have a question about Council Tax, hopefully someone on these boards will be more helpful than the staff at my tax office!

I have recently recieved a council tax bill for a property I lived at in 2001, back when I was 19. I shared the property with two other tenants.

I am the only one of the three that the council have been able to track down, and they are telling me that because the other two cannot be traced, I am solely responsible for the entire £500+ bill.

Is this right? Surely I am only responsible for only a third of the bill? I have tried telling them this to no avail.

I have sent them a letter disputing this decision, and have had to pay nearly half of the bill today to a Civil Enforcement Agency/Bailiff to avoid losing any of my possesions. I have not yet recieved a reply.

Has this topic been covered before on here, or has anyone had this experience themselves?

Please help!

A council tax bill is no different from a gas or electric bill. They wouldn't accept a third off you for the total debt and neither will councils. Please ignore the advice to not open the doors to bailiffs. Their first visit costs £22.50, their second visit costs £16.50. If they come back after that then Richard Branson couldn't afford the charges you could get lumbered with. You need to face up to the situation as the longer you leave it to make an arrangement the bigger the debt will become.

rjm2k1

OP has made no mention of being taken to court, surely if this has not happened the council should not be sending bailiffs in yet, the OP has the right to dispute this in court, where the council should have to provide evidence as to how they have attempted to minimise the cost to the OP by tracking down the other people, even though jointly and severaly liable the council shouldn't be allowed to get away with just going after one person (who has no connection with the others) because they can't be bothered finding the others. In this day and age it's often very easy to track people down and there are professional agencies who can do exactly that.

hodgester

rjm2k1 wrote:

OP has made no mention of being taken to court, surely if this has not happened the council should not be sending bailiffs in yet, the OP has the right to dispute this in court, where the council should have to provide evidence as to how they have attempted to minimise the cost to the OP by tracking down the other people, even though jointly and severaly liable the council shouldn't be allowed to get away with just going after one person (who has no connection with the others) because they can't be bothered finding the others. In this day and age it's often very easy to track people down and there are professional agencies who can do exactly that.

they will have been taken to court and they will have been granted a liability order. Before and after that order was secured a trace would have been attempted.

Joint and several liability means exactly that, the council are not 'getting away' with anything. This is public money and should therefore be collected expediently as possible with minimal outlay. Would you be happy for your council tax to be used to trace debtors when one of them has already been found?

The OP has no right to challenge the council's actions in a court. He is liable for the charge and has not paid. End of (legal) story. Morality is a side issue.

Ross01

Yes if on your tenancy agreement you were listed as joint tenants, then any one of you can be held liable for the full rent / council tax, no matter how many other tenants were in the property. The council can come after any liable party for the bill, meaning they are correct to charge you with the full amount. If you dont pay the whole bill, they can still take you to court, or send the ballifs around. The only good news is they cant make you bancrupt as the sum owed is too small.