Orange's interpretation of loyalty

ilesmark

Hi all

Having a bit of an upgrade issue with Orange.

Briefly - Aug 2008, bought a Nokia N95 for £35/month. 400 minutes, 2 or 300 texts, mobile internet and unlimited UK landline calls on an 18 month contract.

Dec 2009 - got a call out of the blue from Orange offering an upgrade because I was within 90 days of the end of the old contract. Without any instigation by me, they offered a HTC Hero on a new 18 month contract with 800 mins, 1300 texts, unlimited mobile internet and unlimited UK landline calls and all for £15/month. Apparently this was because of a 'loyalty discount'.

Now, after a further 18 months of 'loyalty' to Orange on top of the 1st 18 months, I have 5 weeks left to run of this second contract. So, if I am looking to sign up for a further 18 months, I should get an even better deal, or at least stay on the same one, right?

Wrong - this time I contacted them about an upgrade and they would only offer a cheap and nasty handset if I stayed on the existing terms.

I then went to Phones 4 U, who were able to do a handset-only upgrade on my existing terms with a better handset, but they contacted Orange at my instigation to double-check whether the terms would stay the same if I signed up to a further 18 months. Sure enough they were told 'his loyalty discount will expire in mid-June when the original 18 months comes to an end and then it'll go back to 400 mins, 300 texts, unlimited mobile internet and unlimited UK landline calls and the price will go back up to £25/month'. In other words, if I had upgraded with Phones 4U without checking then I would have stayed on the existing terms only till the 18 months expired in mid-June and then got a nasty surprise when I saw my first bill after that.

Did I not say/ask the right things?

Any advice would be gratefully received on how to get a better deal. It seems odd that Orange gave me such a good deal at the end of 2009 in return for 18 months of 'loyalty', but that I am now looking down the barrel of a worse deal having been with Orange for a further 18 months.

Thanks

Mark

Techhead_2

Generally speaking, when loyalty deals end you need to build up a new loyalty discount. The exception to this is if you have spent substantially more than your minimum monthly payment. Service providers will no longer offer what used to be called Suicide Deals in order to keep a customer. (Ever increasing discount , year after year in the hope you will spend more)

What this means for you is that you should always go for the best deal for you, taking into account cost, service, coverage etc, whoever it is with.

ilesmark

Hope I am not digging this thread up from too deep in the grave.

Have found out the hard way that new incoming Pay Monthly customers can get far better deals than existing ones upgrading BUT you don't get to keep your existing number and if for eg you have Orange Magic numbers you lose them.

Partial solution - when coming to the end of your existing Pay Monthly deal, get a PAC code from the provider, then use it to get a PAYG SIM card with another network using the old number, then immediately get a PAC code from the PAYG provider and take this to the original provider and use it to take out a fresh contract. That way you keep your existing no while getting treated (better) as a new customer.

Or - judging by a conversation I have just had with Orange - give notice that you're leaving your Pay Monthly deal, which means they give you a PAC code valid for 30 days. Then, a day or 2 days before the notice period ends, ask Orange to convert you to PAYG (and register the number), then immediately use the PAC code to take out a fresh contract. Less running around.

Thanks to Carphone Warehouse, who made me aware of this issue, and who gave me the tip as described above. Phones 4U, who I had talked to before, didn't!!

gas4you

As a general rule, Orange won't call you about upgrades. It is always a third party seller pretending to be orange.

ilesmark

That's an interesting one! I've been told that before, but the person who called me from Orange in 2009 was definitely from Orange. I know this because the deal seemed too good to be true, so I emailed him what he'd said and asked him to confirm it was correct, which he did, and it came from an '@orange-ftgroup.com' address. Not only that, when I had a separate problem with my home broadband a few months later it was him I dealt with again.

Another interesting factoid is that just after I signed up for another 18 months with Orange in 2009, I must have had 5 or 10 calls from 3rd party sellers also wanting to sign me up for another 18 months. I had to tell them they were too late. This time - not a sausage. Odd how the way of doing things has changed so much in 18 months.

Jon_01

Because they gave you such a good deal 18 months ago you've made them no profit over that time. The result, you get a worse offer this time...

Any loyalty goes in the bin if you make no money for them...

ilesmark

Yep, so it appears. Ironic how it was their own 'generosity' that's landed me in this position.

Wonder how long before they start clamping down on the use of PAC codes to keep existing numbers while getting the benefit of a new contract.

Jon_01

There's not a thing they can do about that. They're bound by the rules that say they have to give a pac and have to accepted a pac into a contract. Unless they find some obscure loophole in the rules nothing will change.

ilesmark

I guess they could start saying 'Offer only available to new customers and not to those who have held a contract with Orange (or whichever network it is) in the last X months' or something like that!

foxtrot_mike

The only way to learn what loyalty means if people keep voting with their feet, get your PAC code and see if they offer anything.

Unless they offer me anything suitbale (which I can imagine them doing) im going to do just that.

ilesmark

Alas, I have already got my PAC code and in that conversation with them they made it crystal clear they've gone as far as they're going to go - which isn't very far at all for the reasons espoused by Jon 01

Ah well. Their loss, innit? If they'd have given me something between what I stand to gain by porting my number and taking out a new contract and the paltry offer they were holding out as an upgrade, I'd probably have taken it for the sake of keeping my magic numbers. But oh no - they wouldn't budge. Computer says no.

Odd though how they wouldn't give me much of an upgrade because I haven't been spending enough every month, yet they're happy to give me a deal as a new customer that will see me spending pretty much the same every month but with more mins/data/texts and a better phone! :cool: