Housing Benefit

rosysparkle

deary65 wrote:

What i have found, people cannot make sense of the benefit system. Here is a set of circumstances.
I rent a pace for £100 pw I’m in receipt of £50 pw income based jsa the minimum the law says i need to live on. The rent officer makes a determination of £80 pw result, i have left just about half what the law says i need to live on. Can anyone make sense of that?
If the rent officers decision binds the landlord then that would make sense to people.Notwithstanding you would out the door pretty quickly.

Of course people can make sense of that. If someone intends to rent property and are on benefits, they should be aware that HB may not cover the full rent. If HB did, some landlords would be charging thousands a week and some people would be living in luxury mansions, all courtesy of the taxpayer.

Real1314 rightly points out that you have not taken into account the word "eligible".

In the scenario you describe above, a pre-tenancy determination will show that HB will only pay £80pw. A prospective tenant then has a choice; rent somewhere cheaper or pay the difference in rent themselves. Anyone on benefits who intends to rent should get a PTD before they sign an agreement.

deary65

Explain what happens when a person finds they are unemployed with no savings or income, and have been living in the property for 4 or 5 years paying a market rent which the rent officer has determined is too high
.
If you cannot find anywhere cheaper! What then.

The very fact that a predetermined tenancy was created is an indication, that legal advise had been taken. They know the courts will not tolerate any interference with a person’s right to freely enter into contractual relationships.

real1314

deary65 wrote:

Explain what happens when a person finds they are unemployed with no savings or income, and have been living in the property for 4 or 5 years paying a market rent which the rent officer has determined is too high
.
If you cannot find anywhere cheaper! What then.

The very fact that a predetermined tenancy was created is an indication, that legal advise had been taken. They know the courts will not tolerate any interference with a person’s right to freely enter into contractual relationships.

ok, so the £2,500,000 weekly tenancy? or even the £250 per week luxury flat in an area where rents are typically £100? Should the taxpayer subsidise the occupation of a flat which employed people cannot afford to live in?

you think that a contract made between 2 parties can bind a further party into the contract without agreement, knowledge or consent? which of us is ignorant of the law?

deary65

You are confusing matters again and taking things personally, this is a debate, hopefully that will inform and get people thinking about their rights.

Here is an abstract of a’57 rent act which created what became known as the Rachman act. This is what is happening today, the only difference is we are creating many little rachmans.Hence the introduction of the ’77 rent act. And I can see history repeating itself. In other words an other rent act will have to be introduced to control rents.

I shall also explain later what i mean by an act of parliament "per se"


Abstract
In 1957, against a background of political turmoil and international tension the Conservative government passed the Rent Act, a highly contentious piece of legislation designed to resolve the problem of housing shortages by removing the statutory restrictions on the rents of privately let accommodation which had been operative since the Great War. The government argued that by abolishing rent controls landlords would be encouraged to maintain, improve, and invest in private rented property and thereby increase its availability. The failure to achieve these objectives prompts an assessment of the Rent Act through an analysis of its origins. It is suggested that, although the government's rents policy was framed within a broad economic imperative, between 1955 and 1957 it became refracted through a number of political, administrative, and social constraints, ensuring that its central aim of creating a free market in rents could never be achieved. As such the Rent Act reaffirmed the strength of consensus politics as a major influence on the Conservative party's housing strategy.
ALAN G. V. SIMMONDS

rosysparkle

deary65 wrote:

Explain what happens when a person finds they are unemployed with no savings or income, and have been living in the property for 4 or 5 years paying a market rent which the rent officer has determined is too high
.
If you cannot find anywhere cheaper! What then.

The very fact that a predetermined tenancy was created is an indication, that legal advise had been taken. They know the courts will not tolerate any interference with a person’s right to freely enter into contractual relationships.

I was discussing what people should do if they were in receipt of benefits before they signed an agreement.

If someone has been living in a property for some time and paying the rent from their own means; and then find themselves in receipt of benefits and have to claim HB to pay the rent, they will find that HB may not cover the full rent. They would have to pay the shortfall from their own means or find somewhere cheaper to live. This may not be easy or convenient, but it is the reality.

I am afraid I don't know what you mean by a 'predetermined tenancy'. No such thing exists as far as I know.

I talked about a pretenancy determination, which is an indication of how much HB could be paid on a particular property. A prospective tenant can obtain this from HB prior to entering into a tenancy agreement. It is not a tenancy agreement and binds neither prospective landlord or prospective tenant into any contract. I work in lettings and not for an local authority, but IIRC it does not bind HB into paying any particular amount, since the prospective tenant's personal circumstances aren't taken into account until a claim is made.

real1314

Dreary, I'm not taking anything you've said recently personally as you've stopped trying to tell me that I don't understand this or that.
We're not really having a debate, as you keep referring to market rent, ignoring the issue of eligbile rent, ignoring direct questions about your posts (your SI from 2006 had all the defeinitions of eligible rent, the bit you referred to had the phrase "eligible rent")
and now you're bringing in the 1957 rent act, which has long since been superceeded by the Acts I've quoted.
Unless you can negate the eligible rent issue there's no point to this "debate".

1988 is the key date - an act of parliament that surpasses the preceeding acts you're referring to.

Trying to give people false hope when you are unable to sustain this is a futile and time wasting thing to do.
Shelter, Child Poverty Action Group and numerous other agencies examine and use the HB regs daily. What qualifications do you have to claim that you know better?

I'm not going to contiune with this any longer unless you are able to come up with some relevant issue rather than going round in circles.

deary65

For people reading, you have not explained what happens when you can't get somewhere cheaper.
If they find somewhere cheaper,

Do they have to get new carpets furniture ect..,Uproot their childern from school every six months when the landlord finds someone who is willing to pay more rent, I can go on and on.But i think you can get my meaning.

real1314

Ok, I'll explain it simply. The rent officer decision is based on local rents. In most cases there is a range of rents available and they have to move to the cheaper end of the market. If there were no places available anywhere at a cheaper rent, then it's likely that they'd already be in the cheaper end of the market, hence the position you've quoted is un-realistic.

It's (presumably) an assured shorthold tenancy, not a tenancy for life. The landlord can end the tenancy with sufficient notice to sell, let to others, whatever. This appears to be another red herring.

You now seem to be heading into what should happen under future legislation. How does this explain what happens NOW with HB?

needaspirin

If this is any help in clearing the air. Here is a copy of the Pre Tenancy Determination Application. It also includes some valuable information on the process. Click Download for the pdf.

deary65

Thank for that needasperin,I think i do.

I already have a copy of the same here are the pertinent words:
The Housing Benefit office will ask the Rent Service to value the property and to decide how much rent it would be reasonable to pay for it. You will normally get your decision within seven days. If they have made a valuation on that property on the same tenancy terms within the last 12 months that valuation will stand and the Housing Benefit office will send you a copy of this decision. Page 2 of this leaflet explains the Rent Service's decision and how it will affect your Housing Benefit.