Intentional deprivation of assets

WGG1848

I don't apologise for raising this thread again, but grey areas in this matter abound.
We have P O A in respect of mother-in-law who is in a care home with serious dementia. She is at present self-funding, and will be for a further 2 years at least.
In the past she has been in a position financially to give money for birthdays/christmas/easter to all her close relatives.
For example she gave £20 each to her great grandchildren for easter.
Non of this was ever recorded. She has 13 close relatives who regularly benefited from her generosity throughout each year. Including a son with Downs. The amounts never excided £50 individually but collectively could amouint to around a £1000 a year.
Can we continue to give these gifts on her behalf?

Savvy_Sue

I think that you need to be able to demonstrate that you are simply doing what she herself used to do.

If she gave cheques, that's fairly easy to demonstrate.

If it was a crisp £20 in the card, a bit harder, and I'm not sure what would be acceptable. Did anyone ever write thank you letters?

Torry_Quine

Yes you can continue to give money like this as she used to do. This is not deprivation of assets.

littlemissbossy

I am in the same situation as you.

My MIL and FIL are in a nursing home and I am their POA.

They self funded for the first 12 months and then the LA stepped in.

My husband and I (their only family) have always been given £100 each for birthday and xmas. I discussed this with the finance department who confirmed this was ok as it had always been done, although it has always been cash and no records over kept.

HTH

pollypenny

There doesn't seem anything wrong with giving a money gift in PO's circumstances.

My thought is, why would the family want to to take money from an elderly person who could well need it more.

Mojisola

If someone in a care home is being funded by SS, they are only allowed to keep just over £20 a week to cover all their personal spending.

Do you really want to take four weeks' money just so you still have £100 for your birthday?

Torry_Quine

That's somewhat harsh. The person in question is actually self-funding so the money is coming out of her own savings, yes you could argue that it will make her eligible for state funding a little earlier but that would be a cruel position to take. In my experience elderly people often spend very little on themselves and would rather spend on others, she may well have very little she needs to spend for herself.

Mojisola

littlemissbossy wrote: »

They self funded for the first 12 months and then the LA stepped in.

My husband and I (their only family) have always been given £100 each for birthday and xmas. I discussed this with the finance department who confirmed this was ok as it had always been done, although it has always been cash and no records over kept.

Torry_Quine wrote: »

That's somewhat harsh. The person in question is actually self-funding so the money is coming out of her own savings, yes you could argue that it will make her eligible for state funding a little earlier but that would be a cruel position to take. In my experience elderly people often spend very little on themselves and would rather spend on others, she may well have very little she needs to spend for herself.

I was replying to littlemissbossy's post.

littlemissbossy

Mojisola wrote: »

I was replying to littlemissbossy's post.

ummm?? was only trying to help??

Mojisola

littlemissbossy wrote: »

ummm?? was only trying to help??

You said I was being harsh - I don't agree.

There were two separate issues - the self-funder can carry on giving her usual gifts without it being considered deprivation of capital; the person funded by the council would only have just over £20 a week pocket money. Spending £400 on two birthday and two Christmas gifs would take most of her money for 20 weeks of the year.

Do you really think it's harsh to suggest that the relatives might want to think again about this?

WGG1848

Like many other people when a close relation suffers such a disabling condition as dementia, it completely takes you aback. From being a loving and considerate person to one who appears completely adrift, it really takes some understanding. We cannot get any sense from her in discussions, but the the smile we get on seeing her is just fantastic, she recognises all of us.
When we got the P of A confirmed by the court of protection it was explained to us that we can continue to admimister her affairs 'just as she would have done'
This was quickly corrected when her financial circumstances were throughly investigated, and indeed are still being checked. One area under scrutiny is an Insurance company 'With Profit Bond'. This was originally taken out over 20 years ago! and the authorities are wanting to know what advice was given at the point of sale.
M I L would,without question, be mortified if she could not recognise birthdays etc as she has done in the past. We found a draw full of thank you notes she has received following her past generosity, this clearly shows what pleasure she got from her giving.
Whilst I said we cannot make sense of her in discussions, she can make most of her personal needs known, toilet, drinks, bed etc. We do explain to her what has been going on in the family, how do we know how much she is understanding?
The smile we get on seeing her could be a good indication.
Whilst we do FULLY apreciate our responsibliities in the circumstances, we must also consider very carefully what M in L would have wanted.
It is for that very reason I posted this thread, for the authorities in their wisdom have a job to do in the wider picture of things, and clarification is needed so we do not fall foul of 'their interpretation' of giving.