Problem with laminate floor above me

wtabby

I own and live in a 3 year old Redrow apartment and the property above has a laminated floor throughout. I can hear everything, even when they turn off the lightswitch at night.
I am an owner but above is rented out by a private landlord.
I can understand why a landlord would prefer laminate as its cheap and hard wearing, but from my point of view its horrendous.
The managing agents don't want to know and the occupiers deny it is laminate. The previous tenants told us it was laminate and apologised for any noise they made. They was really quiet even though they had a new baby. They obviously put some effort to keep noise down, not like the present couple.
Here is a copy of the lease covenent regarding flooring
13. At all times to cover and keep covered with decorative floor finish or carpet the floors of the Demised Premises (other than those of the kitchen and bathrooms) and at all times suitably and properly to cover and keep covered the floors of the kitchen and bathrooms of the Demised Premises with ceramic or vinyl PROVIDED THAT all such floor covering is made of a sound absorbing material
All I get from the managing agents is that we cannot prove it is a laminate floor and if it is, cannot prove that the laminate is not of a sound proofing material.
Cannot afford to move.
Any ideas??

Scooby_Doo.

wtabby wrote: »

I own and live in a 3 year old Redrow apartment and the property above has a laminated floor throughout. I can hear everything, even when they turn off the lightswitch at night.
I am an owner but above is rented out by a private landlord.
I can understand why a landlord would prefer laminate as its cheap and hard wearing, but from my point of view its horrendous.
The managing agents don't want to know and the occupiers deny it is laminate. The previous tenants told us it was laminate and apologised for any noise they made. They was really quiet even though they had a new baby. They obviously put some effort to keep noise down, not like the present couple.
Here is a copy of the lease covenent regarding flooring
13. At all times to cover and keep covered with decorative floor finish or carpet the floors of the Demised Premises (other than those of the kitchen and bathrooms) and at all times suitably and properly to cover and keep covered the floors of the kitchen and bathrooms of the Demised Premises with ceramic or vinyl PROVIDED THAT all such floor covering is made of a sound absorbing material
All I get from the managing agents is that we cannot prove it is a laminate floor and if it is, cannot prove that the laminate is not of a sound proofing material.
Cannot afford to move.
Any ideas??

phill99

You don't need to prove that is laminate.

There should also be a clause in your lease that the floor covering should not allow the noise to get above a certain (specified) dB rating. If you can prove that the sound coming through is higher than that rating, then they are in breach of their lease and action can be taken against them.

There is a special acoustic underlay that you can use for laminate in lflats that, if I remember correctly, reduces the dB rate down to 23 dB.

wtabby

phill99 wrote: »

You don't need to prove that is laminate.

There should also be a clause in your lease that the floor covering should not allow the noise to get above a certain (specified) dB rating. If you can prove that the sound coming through is higher than that rating, then they are in breach of their lease and action can be taken against them.

There is a special acoustic underlay that you can use for laminate in lflats that, if I remember correctly, reduces the dB rate down to 23 dB.

No such clause in the lease I'm afraid.
Can I force the managing company to enforce the restrictions? they seem happy to "sit on the fence"
How do I go about this?

Norman_Castle

I can hear everything, even when they turn off the lightswitch at night.

I can sometimes hear the lightswitch and talking from two floors below me. Sound can travel through the walls.

Cannot afford to move.
Any ideas??

Politely ask your neigbours to keep quiet. If they do not understand the problem, become noisy.

laurajd28

wtabby wrote: »

I own and live in a 3 year old Redrow apartment and the property above has a laminated floor throughout. I can hear everything, even when they turn off the lightswitch at night.
I am an owner but above is rented out by a private landlord.
I can understand why a landlord would prefer laminate as its cheap and hard wearing, but from my point of view its horrendous.
The managing agents don't want to know and the occupiers deny it is laminate. The previous tenants told us it was laminate and apologised for any noise they made. They was really quiet even though they had a new baby. They obviously put some effort to keep noise down, not like the present couple.
Here is a copy of the lease covenent regarding flooring
13. At all times to cover and keep covered with decorative floor finish or carpet the floors of the Demised Premises (other than those of the kitchen and bathrooms) and at all times suitably and properly to cover and keep covered the floors of the kitchen and bathrooms of the Demised Premises with ceramic or vinyl PROVIDED THAT all such floor covering is made of a sound absorbing material
All I get from the managing agents is that we cannot prove it is a laminate floor and if it is, cannot prove that the laminate is not of a sound proofing material.
Cannot afford to move.
Any ideas??

I too live in a ground-floor Redrow Debut apartment and have exactly the same problem!! I've complained numerous times to the Management company but they don't respond to emails and there never appears to be anyone in the office when I ring! (are you in Stoke-on-Trent by an chance?!)
I've got the same clause in my lease, (and another clause which states that apartments cannot be rented out!), but no-one seems to want to enforce it.

I've given up trying to get it sorted and am hoping to move very soon!!

Good luck, and I hope you manage to get it sorted!!

wtabby

I am in Rochdale.
I have heard rumours of management companies being taken to court for not enforcing covenents, just too busy at moment to go down that route.
Not too long ago they went crazy about one resident putting up pictures in the hallway to brighten it up...................fire hazzard!!

But my problem, not interested

phill99

wtabby wrote: »

No such clause in the lease I'm afraid.
Can I force the managing company to enforce the restrictions? they seem happy to "sit on the fence"
How do I go about this?

if there is no clause in the lease, then how can the management company make the people upstairs ne quieter?

wtabby

The clause/restrictive covenent is not specific to decibel levels, just states that all flooring to be of sound absorbing material.
13. At all times to cover and keep covered with decorative floor finish or carpet the floors of the Demised Premises (other than those of the kitchen and bathrooms) and at all times suitably and properly to cover and keep covered the floors of the kitchen and bathrooms of the Demised Premises with ceramic or vinyl PROVIDED THAT all such floor covering is made of a sound absorbing material
The management company (Premier Estates) tell me that laminate flooring is sound absorbing??
Believe me its not

phill99

wtabby wrote: »

The clause/restrictive covenent is not specific to decibel levels, just states that all flooring to be of sound absorbing material.
13. At all times to cover and keep covered with decorative floor finish or carpet the floors of the Demised Premises (other than those of the kitchen and bathrooms) and at all times suitably and properly to cover and keep covered the floors of the kitchen and bathrooms of the Demised Premises with ceramic or vinyl PROVIDED THAT all such floor covering is made of a sound absorbing material
The management company (Premier Estates) tell me that laminate flooring is sound absorbing??
Believe me its not

OK, I see what you are getting at.

I think it would be very difficult for either you or the management company to agree or not as to whether Laminate Flooring is Sound absorbing.

By definition, every material in the world is sound absorbing. If you took a decibel reading of the noise in the flat upstairs and compared it with a reading of the same noises in your flat, then the reading in your flat will be lower as the noise has had to pass through laminate flooring, underlay, the substrata of the flat upstairs, any insulation and the ceiling material of you flat. Therefore, it could be argued by the Mgt Co and the people upstairs that their flooring is sound absorbing.

I think the lease clause is poorly worded as it lacks definition.

Playing devils advocate, I think you would need to prove that laminate flooring is not sound absorbing.

Additionally, the scope of the Mgt Co's instruction needs to be examined. Are they actually charged with enforcing covenants or is that down to the agreived party (ie yourself).

I don't think your situation is as clear as it originally seemed.

wtabby

phill99 wrote: »

OK, I see what you are getting at.

I think it would be very difficult for either you or the management company to agree or not as to whether Laminate Flooring is Sound absorbing.

By definition, every material in the world is sound absorbing. If you took a decibel reading of the noise in the flat upstairs and compared it with a reading of the same noises in your flat, then the reading in your flat will be lower as the noise has had to pass through laminate flooring, underlay, the substrata of the flat upstairs, any insulation and the ceiling material of you flat. Therefore, it could be argued by the Mgt Co and the people upstairs that their flooring is sound absorbing.

I think the lease clause is poorly worded as it lacks definition.

Playing devils advocate, I think you would need to prove that laminate flooring is not sound absorbing.

Additionally, the scope of the Mgt Co's instruction needs to be examined. Are they actually charged with enforcing covenants or is that down to the agreived party (ie yourself).

I don't think your situation is as clear as it originally seemed.

Exactly.
Tempted to respond by making excessive noise myself but I have consideration for the residents below me.