CIPD qualifications or not?

Annadu

This question is really hard to answer for me at the moment, especially since I am not from the UK and I would appreciate any help or comment.
I have a four year business degree and have worked as an Executive Headhunter in the UK for the past 3 years. Because I want to move into an internal HR role I have decided to study a Master’s degree.

I can study a Ma in Germany at a good institution, which costs 1/3 of the UK option. The structure allows to work along the degree and gain relevant experience. However, of course CIPD is not included.
Also I have an offer from King’s College, which includes CIPD
As I might go back to the UK after my degree I don’t want to lose out on the CIPD requirement which seems to be very important to employers and am considering taking some additional CIPD courses such as UK employment law. These are not cheap either.
My question:
My understanding is that the highest level of CIPD qualification leads to obtain a level similar to a Master’s. When I read through the course contents of the CIPD I feel that the subjects are covered in the Master's Programs already. I don’t understand why I should pay more to learn very similar things?
Where is the difference and the additional benefit of the CIPD? Does anyone have a recommendation regarding the best option?

Many thanks,

KiKi

Annadu wrote: »

I can study a Ma in Germany at a good institution, which costs 1/3 of the UK option. The structure allows to work along the degree and gain relevant experience. However, of course CIPD is not included.
Also I have an offer from King’s College, which includes CIPD
As I might go back to the UK after my degree I don’t want to lose out on the CIPD requirement which seems to be very important to employers and am considering taking some additional CIPD courses such as UK employment law. These are not cheap either.
My question:
My understanding is that the highest level of CIPD qualification leads to obtain a level similar to a Master’s. When I read through the course contents of the CIPD I feel that the subjects are covered in the Master's Programs already. I don’t understand why I should pay more to learn very similar things?
Where is the difference and the additional benefit of the CIPD? Does anyone have a recommendation regarding the best option?

Many thanks,

Hiya

Quite simply, the CIPD is the recognised professional qualification in the UK for HR - the fully accredited status (Chartered Member) is equivalent to a Masters in terms of study, but you have MCIPD after your name, not MA.

You can also do Masters degrees in HR in the UK that will fully accredit you for CIPD status - and then you get MA and MCIPD.

The subjects in Germany might be the same, but if you want to practise HR in the UK, depending on the level, a CIPD qualification will stand you in much better stead. Although it's not an essential requirement in the same way that a chartered accountant is for accountancy, the vast majority of organisations wanting HR managers, consultants, advisors etc will ask for it - and when you're competing against hundreds of others for the role, it can be a key factor for employers; many would not look at an MA, as they'd want to know why it wasn't CIPD accredited. (In fact, last year I spent three months coaching a client who did an MA in HRM, but has had to go through a year of getting it CIPD accredited because she just can't get employers to look at her without that accreditation.)

CIPD accreditation also reassures an employer that as a CIPD member, you're abiding by the CIPD's standards and practices, and that you understand UK employment law (which I assume a German MA wouldn't teach you).

In essence, if you want to work in HR in the UK you would be at a disadvantage for many - but not all - HR roles, especially senior ones. If you don't want to work in the UK then it's actually not that helpful to you, as it's a professional qualification that isn't necessarily translatable or recognised elsewhere. If you did a CIPD-accredited MA, then that would be fantastic, as it would give you UK recognition *and* recognition abroad.

ETA - I would not necessarily recommend taking the 'extra' courses as a way of getting CIPD status. They would only offer 'Associate' status, and most employers want Chartered. Unfortunately with the new levels of membership, 'Associate' can mean "I've taken one very short course as an intro to HR" to "I've done two years of study but not yet gained full membership", so even if you did a lot of study, without the full qualification you would be at a disadvantage for many roles.

HTH - feel free to ask any more questions.
KiKi

LittleVoice

Check the CIPD website regarding qualifying for membership. You do not have to do a course to qualify as they recognise other qualifications and work experience.

You could also contact your local branch and ask the membership adviser.

chanie

If you really want to work in HR in the UK, then I would definitely do the MA with the CIPD, which is what I did.

In saying that though, my boss doesn't have a CIPD qualification. He has worked in HR for over 30 years and the labour market was a very differnt place when he started out. Not having the qualifcation is unlikely to hold him back as he can demonstrate the required knowledge, skills and experience of a senior HR practitioner.

Entry level positions are quite hard to come by, especially in the current economic climate so you may struggle if you apply for jobs and the other candidates have the CIPD.

KiKi

LittleVoice wrote: »

Check the CIPD website regarding qualifying for membership. You do not have to do a course to qualify as they recognise other qualifications and work experience.

You could also contact your local branch and ask the membership adviser.

You're right, they do - but as the OP has no experience outside of recruitment (it seems), then it's extremely unlikely she could demonstrate the requirements to be a chartered member. Plus, it costs nearly £2000 for an experience assessment.

Re other qualifications, my client just spent £1800 getting 'accredited' after she'd already completed an MA in HRM - with a university that is now accredited with the CIPD, but wasn't in the two years that she did it! Part of that accreditation was writing a 10,000 word research report, an interview, a presentation and three storyboards and evidence of all her experience - it's not as simple as asking the CIPD to recognise the qualification, unfortunately.

So it's an option (and you're right to tell the OP about it) but as she has little experience and would have to pay out a lot to get another qualification recognised anyway, she's still likely to be better off doing a CIPD accredited course.

KiKi

Annadu

Thanks very much for your messages and ideas, especially to you Kiki!

I have spoken to the CIPD and I could get exemption for some of my classes, however I can obviously only apply for it once I complete my Master's. This means that I would have to take another 1-2 years after graduation to complete the CIPD.
As you mentioned chartered membership as the most relevant one I started looking at the advanced diploma. However I have been advised that it only makes sense to study towards this if I am already working in a UK based HR position.

Which level and certificate would you recommend to start off with looking at the experience (3 years executive Search) and qualification (Ma HRM) I will have then?

KiKi

Annadu wrote: »

Thanks very much for your messages and ideas, especially to you Kiki!

I have spoken to the CIPD and I could get exemption for some of my classes, however I can obviously only apply for it once I complete my Master's. This means that I would have to take another 1-2 years after graduation to complete the CIPD.

Think very, very carefully before taking this route. What happens in reality is that you will pay the CIPD to assess what you've done in your German MA. They will look at it and make a decision as to what else you need to do. Based on what you've said, this will undoubtedly include an intermediate certificate or diploma in HRM (to cover the ER aspect), an interview, a presentation, and a number of storyboards around your own HR experience. This may cost you in the region of £2-3k, *assuming* they don't ask you to study any other modules other than the ER diploma. You may also be required to do the management report - many people taking this route are. This costs in the region of £800.

I'm not trying to put you off - it still may be cheaper to do it this way. But this means an MA in Germany at a cost, for 1-2 years. Then another 1-2 years in the UK, with a cost of around £3k. It's not an easy route to do, and not cheap. You've got to get through the administration of it all, and it will take around 3-4 years (dep on how long your MA is). It also relies on the assessment by the CIPD of what you've already done...you run the risk of them telling you that you need to do 3 additional diplomas, a certificate, a management report and a self-assessment or something like that, which would cost a small fortune when taken individually! Obviously that's an exaggeration, but the full cost to you is utterly unknown at this point in time.

This is why this option is always a risk. BUT, if it's right for you, then go for it - just be aware of the risks involved, that's all.

As you mentioned chartered membership as the most relevant one I started looking at the advanced diploma. However I have been advised that it only makes sense to study towards this if I am already working in a UK based HR position.

Okay, how do I say this without sounding rude...! The CIPD, in my opinion (and I do a lot of work with them), tend to underestimate many learners, and tend to give 'across the board' advice. They almost always recommend anyone starting out in HR to do an Award or Certificate, almost always at the foundation or intermediate level. Now, that may be fine for some, but not all.

I actually write some of the Certificate courses for the CIPD, and I'm also an internal verifier for the CIPD assessments. And I see some *appalling* work which I can't pass, not even at Award level. However, these tend to be from people who have been in the same job for many years at an lower admin level and have no experience outside of their own role. They often haven't done any academic study in a very long time, and almost always haven't been to uni or done any business-type courses. What this means is that they're either not used to the requirements of an academic course, or they just haven't got the broader understanding of things like putting a management report together. Sometimes I've failed people because I *literally* cannot understand what they've written.

However, if you do work in an HR environment (albeit a recruitment-based one), if you are used to academic study and have already done a qualification at degree level, and if you know that you are bright and savvy about what you do, I don't think you'd find the Advanced courses a problem at all. They might be challenging at times - but that's kind of the point. Plus, you can space the modules out.

Every HR graduate training scheme that I know of puts grads straight from uni - with no HR experience - into those CIPD courses, and they cope fine. I did, and that was with a degree in English Lit! It certainly helps to be in an HR role, no doubt about that. But quite frankly, if you're capable of doing an MA in HR which has the same subjects as the CIPD Advanced courses, then you're more than capable of doing the CIPD ones. It's no different!

If you feel capable, and would prefer a CIPD programme to an MA, then I would just do an Advanced Diploma.

Which level and certificate would you recommend to start off with looking at the experience (3 years executive Search) and qualification (Ma HRM) I will have then?

Do you mean what should you start with once you have the MA? I can't tell you that, I'm afraid, not without knowing the content, and even then no-one's opinion counts for anything - except the CIPD's. If they deem that your MA covers everything except the ER element, then you'd have to do that. But that's what I mean - it's a completely unknown quantity. There's no point looking at any of the CIPD courses until you have your German MA, if that's what you choose to do. If you choose a UK MA, then most definitely choose one with full, chartered, CIPD accreditation.

Or have I misunderstood your question there?

KiKi

Annadu

Hi Kiki,

Thanks so much! This has been a great help!!

So far I have been very confused by the different levels and which one would make most sense for me considering that I am not striving for an admin role or a basic first step and the information I got from the CIPD and the providers has not been able to clarify this so far.
To be honest, I am not sure myself how much of the Master I have just started would be accepted by the CIPD in the end as classes at least sound different in the sense that many of the CIPD classes are more practical and my MA is more strategic.

As I don't have to pay any fees in Germany the cost for the degree are quite low (5k Euros living expense support) apart from the time invested (1.5 years) of course. Also I can work alongside the degree in part time HR roles, which are easier to get here, and gain some useful experience.

As I am not 100% decided if I will move back I have chosen to take this option and will have to live with the additional cost (I understand a max of around £10.000 assuming I don't get any exemptions for the full advanced diploma) and delay in case I do.

However you have helped me understand that the advanced level classes are most relevant to me.
Do I understand correctly that for the behaviour and experience based exams I could use the experience I gained through Executive Search and the work experience I will gain through my part time jobs in Germany? It does not have to be from a current position?

You are right, the process and options after ther German MA sound scary. I will keep your note and look back at it in 1.5 years.
You mentioned you also do professional coaching - maybe I can take your details and come back to you in the future?

Thanks again!
Anna

dickydonkin

If the qualification was obtained in Germany, would EU or UK legislation be taught or are we actually on a par with the EU in respect of employment laws or does legislation not enter the equation in respect of gaining the qualification... if that makes any sense.

My H&S qualifications were gained under UK legislation which formed a substantial part of the exams.

I accept that some of our H&S legislation is now a sort of hybrid of UK and EU influenced law (the '6 pack' being a prime example) so would the qualification attained in Germany have the same 'clout' here in the UK?

Confused....:think:

KiKi

Annadu wrote: »

Hi Kiki,

Thanks so much! This has been a great help!!

So far I have been very confused by the different levels and which one would make most sense for me considering that I am not striving for an admin role or a basic first step and the information I got from the CIPD and the providers has not been able to clarify this so far.
To be honest, I am not sure myself how much of the Master I have just started would be accepted by the CIPD in the end as classes at least sound different in the sense that many of the CIPD classes are more practical and my MA is more strategic.

As I don't have to pay any fees in Germany the cost for the degree are quite low (5k Euros living expense support) apart from the time invested (1.5 years) of course. Also I can work alongside the degree in part time HR roles, which are easier to get here, and gain some useful experience.

As I am not 100% decided if I will move back I have chosen to take this option and will have to live with the additional cost (I understand a max of around £10.000 assuming I don't get any exemptions for the full advanced diploma) and delay in case I do.

However you have helped me understand that the advanced level classes are most relevant to me.
Do I understand correctly that for the behaviour and experience based exams I could use the experience I gained through Executive Search and the work experience I will gain through my part time jobs in Germany? It does not have to be from a current position?

You are right, the process and options after ther German MA sound scary. I will keep your note and look back at it in 1.5 years.
You mentioned you also do professional coaching - maybe I can take your details and come back to you in the future?

Thanks again!
Anna

No worries, Anna - happy to help. The new CIPD levels are not easy to understand from their webpages, as they haven't done one overall page that shows how the complete qualification structure works! I have suggested it...!

The best advice I would give you is do your MA (seeing as there are no course fees for you, that's a great option!). Then when you're done, and if you want to work in the UK and still want the CIPD accreditation, get the CIPD to assess what you've done. You can then either decide to take up their recommendations, or you could try and apply for jobs without it. But get as much HR experience as you can, as this will be *invaluable* if you do want the CIPD to assess you. Part of their assessment to accredit you usually includes an interview and storyboards to demonstrate HR skills in the work you've done previously (doesn't have to be current), so this will help enormously.

Glad I could help.
KiKi

KiKi

dickydonkin wrote: »

If the qualification was obtained in Germany, would EU or UK legislation be taught or are we actually on a par with the EU in respect of employment laws or does legislation not enter the equation in respect of gaining the qualification... if that makes any sense.

My H&S qualifications were gained under UK legislation which formed a substantial part of the exams.

I accept that some of our H&S legislation is now a sort of hybrid of UK and EU influenced law (the '6 pack' being a prime example) so would the qualification attained in Germany have the same 'clout' here in the UK?

Confused....:think:

For chartered status the CIPD require a detailed and operational understanding of UK employment law, much of which is very different to the EU. Even if some of it overlapped, the CIPD would only match whole topics, rather than the detail of the study. So if the German MA ER element didn't match the UK CIPD element (which it won't unless they actually teach a UK version - but don't see why they would!), you would have to do the whole CIPD module. They wouldn't go through it bit by bit and work out which applied to the UK and what didn't, as they wouldn't have anything tailored enough for you to do as a supplement. As Anna commented, too, the MAs tend to be more strategic and less focused on the operational elements of HR. So there's lots of HR strategy, targeted recruitment, talent, performance, leadership etc, and less of the legal obligations, the processes of redundancy or recruitment, or how to write a training plan etc.

The only thing the CIPD might do is recommend a lower or higher level of their module, but it depends on the actual content of the module already done.

AFAIU from what I read on here, H&S legislation is more consistent across the EU. I'm no UK employment law expert, though, far from it!

I think generally an MA in HR would be accepted, though, if an employer wanted an MA. It's really if they want a CIPD qualification that the OP would need to get the assessment done here, and I'm seeing more and more of the CIPD as a requirement, now. I guess there's so much more competition out there.

KiKi