General Advice re Quotes, Estimates, Pricing etc

yummymummy79

Had a bit of a look for something similar on the board but didn't come across anything, apologies if I missed it and am repeating.

Just wanted to give a bit of general info about the legal side of quotes, prices etc that might help some people.

Obviously shop around for prices to start with, try and go on recommendations, check your local Trading Standards website for a 'recognised trader' scheme or try Trust Mark approved people.

Once you get a price, a quote will be binding but an estimate is subject to change so make sure you know which one you have got, and get something in writing, preferably detailing exact jobs to be done, parts required, timescale etc.

If once the job is finished the trader wants to increase the price, if it is a quote then they have no legal right to do this, they gave the original price and if it comes in over that then tough luck on them, they should have quoted better in the first place. If of course you are happy to pay more for a good job, then go for it.

If you only got an estimate, then you are leaving yourself open to change of the price at the end, although would still have to be a 'reasonable price' (see below). If no price at all was agreed, then the trader is only allowed to charge a 'reasonable price' which you could get an idea of by trying a few other companies and getting an idea of what they would charge. You could then pay them that reasonable amount, and if they wanted any more, they would have to take you to court (unless you were willing to pay any more).

It is not good for traders to not give a quote, they could leave themselves open to being paid a lower figure than they would want for the job, and the customer needs to know at least a rough figure for budgeting purposes. This also applies when you phone up and someone comes out for repair work etc. Traders can only rely of terms and conditions and prices that the customer know about at the time they agree to the trader coming out. So if no cost is mentioned on the phone, and they come out and say it is £50 callout even if they do nothing, then sorry, they should have told you on the phone so you could make a decision for them to still come, so you would have a case for not paying it.

Obviously, regardless of the price given, if the job is rubbish then you do not automatically have to pay the full amount. You only have to pay an amount that is 'reasonable' for the job has been done, so if only done 50% as well as you thought, then perhaps 50% of the amount may be reasonable.

This is just my ramblings, so if you need proper advice then call your local Consumer Direct, but this can be a starting point.

baldelectrician

yummymummy79 wrote:

Traders can only rely of terms and conditions and prices that the customer know about at the time

Not true, the law is based on what nomal practise is, my terms and conditions are on my website, but I can't rip people off as I could be subject to legal action (and lose my decent (in my opinion) reputation.

yummymummy79 wrote:

This also applies when you phone up and someone comes out for repair work etc. Traders can only rely of terms and conditions and prices that the customer know about at the time they agree to the trader coming out. So if no cost is mentioned on the phone, and they come out and say it is £50 callout even if they do nothing, then sorry, they should have told you on the phone so you could make a decision for them to still come, so you would have a case for not paying it.

In a nutshell, you are very wrong on this point (I am referring to Scottish Law here).
If you ask for a free quote, and the trader arrives and gives you a quote then it should be free.
If you call up and ask someone to do work, or even arrange work (date and time) then there will usually be some charge.
For example a customer called me to work on her kitchen electrics after being let own by another tradesperson. We arranged for me to fit the job in at the tail end of the following day, the customer ended the call with 'you will definaltely come, won't you?', I replied yes.

I arrived at 3.30 pm to be lead into the lounge and she explained that another electrican was called out that morning (afer she had arranged me). The other electricain had been trying to move a time clock for the central heating for 5 hours (this is a 30 min job as it was moving 10 inches)
She wanted me to wait whilst she threw out the other chap, and I would have to pick up the pieces of the job. I only had 3 hours to do all the work and told her that if it were too big I couldn't fit it in.
I asked her why she called someone else in and she replied 'just incase you never came'
Now the point, if you arrange works with more than one person and they both turn up they can both charge you for wasted time.
I did not charge as it was not fair, but had she left things as arranged I would have worked late to get everything up to a decent standard.

I just left and told her to continue with the other chap, as I was not in the business of taking work directly from other tradesersons at peoples homes.

I would suggest to people they get a few quotes and use reccomendations, and Trustmark / CLE vetted tradespeople

I always give free VERBAL quotes and if the client wishes to proceed all the work is detailed in writing, what happens and what doesn't.
The price is fixed and extras are priced per item, and detailed. Anything not detailed is extra, but changing a location of a socket etc is not charged (providing job isn't already done)

I find customers prefer this, and it makes life easier for all concerned.

yummymummy79

Fair enough, I guess the T&Cs bit is open to a bit of interpretation, as well as needing to encompass the reasonable charge bit. If you've got something on the website that people can check themselves then that's good.

It's not people like you that consumers have to worry about, as you are doing things the way they should be done, but there are a large number of dodgy workmen out there that don't mention anything about charging, come out, do nothing, bodge up your house and charge you £200 for the priviledge, which is where the reasonable cost comes in.

Not sure about Scottish Law though, might be different, usually is!

baldelectrician

Scots law is different, a verbal contract is legally binding, as long as you can prove it

I have had a lady call me out a few years ago to change a light. The travelling was 30 mins there and 30 mins back, without doing anything.

I arrived at the same time as another electrician, she pointed to him and said "I'll take yoiu, and pointed to me and said I could go"

You get rogue customers as well as rogue tradespersons.
I charged a standards hours labour as I had wasted an hour, I called trading standards before I did this to make sure of my legal position, and they said I am perfectly within my rights to charge for my time.
Had the customer called for an estimate I would probably gave her a price over the phone as it was a bit of a trek.


She paid by cheque, and I gave her the number and name of the lady in trading standards I spoke to.

All said I find over 98% of customers are fine.

BobProperty

Regarding the above, I have copied something I posted elsewhere on this site:
As a tradesperson, I am not a member of any of these schemes. I do not see any of them helping my business expand or get me customers. There is at least one business out there which purports to do this but it is a scam. There have been government backed schemes one after another, none of which have worked. Can you remember the previous government scheme with the tick? The current scheme is the Trustmark one. If I go on the main site to find a plumber it goes like this:
Trustmark home page
Find a trader
plumbers - there is now a choice between HVCA and AJA Registers. HVCA is heating and ventilating, I am looking for a water plumber. So I go with AJA Registers which is an insurance / management / vetting company
Search takes me to AJA's Trustmark page
Select Plumbing from the drop down list
Enter postcode
and the nearest plumber to me in Stockport is a firm in Kings Heath Birmingham. In fact it's a list of one.
I also don't see how these schemes are meant to help consumers. If the government was serious about it, we would have a license system like they have in parts of North America. The nearest we have is Part P for electrical work, which is a muddle and mis-interpreted by many, including bodies with vested interests.

yummymummy79

I agree about Trust Mark, doesn't live up to the hype at all unfortunately. The best ones are schemes that local Trading Standards set up as they do normally vet people and can get involved in any disputes as well. Only problem is there aren't many of them around, only 1 in East Mids so far, hopefully this will expand.

Age Concern do have some kind of list of approved people for a few types of jobs, but generally this is for older people, although they are likely the ones who need to be protected more.

There are obviously dodgy customers as well, if you hear a story from a consumer and a trader they are very rarely the same.

I definitely agree about the business licencing, although I can't see it ever happening as it would be far too big an undertaking. Perhaps for now, closure of some of the loopholes that let companies trade badly under one name, fold and then open up with the same people under a different name might be a start. it would also be good if Trading Standards could actually stop companies from trading as all they can currently do is fine or imprison, although the proceeds from crime legislation works well sometimes on top.

fimonkey

Just to add my two penneth worth, I agree in respect of the trade-marks/kite-marks.ticks etc etc. The BEST way to find a tradesman is through personal recomendation.

My OH is a self employed carpenter, he makes sure he works to a high standard and has never had to advertise for work (though HAS struggled with the influx of Eastern European immigrants last year, but now he's busy again reparing bad work done by others).

misgrace

My friends Oh is an electrician, and he was struggling for a bit, as he wasnt getting as much work as before, cause others could do it cheaper, it turns out that it was a blessing in disguise as such as he is now having to sort out the electrics and the chaos that others have made a mess off, due to them thinking they could get away doing the same electric work they were doing back where they come from.:eek:

HugoSP

A free hour with a solicitor some 2 years ago taught me that quote and estimate are more or less the same thing. Apparently the legal distinction between the two is now insigificant. I assume he was referring to case law as there must be heaps of it out there.

I always provide a 'Written Estimate' I use the word 'estimate' for my own benefit, as despite what I have written above, most clients may see it differently.

However, what is important IMO is not what the 'offer' is called, but how the estimate is presented.

For example if I write an estimate like this:-

"Fix Leak in roof - £250".

Then how does the client or I know how much work or what work I have to go to to rectify that. I am saying that I'll fix the leak in the roof for £250. This could be as simple as replacing a broken slate or removing 2 complete rows of slate in a vally and replacing the lead along the length of the roof. Also I don't specify which leak.

No, my approach to protect both parties would be to try to work out with the client what would need doing, specify that schedule of works and then put a price against that. If I come across a problem that could affect the price then I have to raise it with the client. I do warn the client that the job could cost more but unless all the work is visable then it is difficult to quantify extra cost.

Hence my estimate could read:-

"Remove and replace defective slates on roof
Renew lead flashing along 1/4 of vally

£250

Note that should additional work be considered necessary to effect a satisfactory repair then this may form the subject of an additional estimate."

This rider means that I will do my best to keep within the estimate, however should a problem be uncovered whilst the work is being carried out this may add a significant amount to required labour and or materials to provide the repair the client wants.