Appealing against CSA clerical errors made in 2002 and 2003 – how?

JasAIR

Hi, I’m a British national previously married with two sons (now 15 & 12) with my PWC in the UK. Officially I live in France with my new partner but we all live here in Abu Dhabi (United Arab Emirates) where I work and I have a young son aged 2. Yeh, I know! We’re not married & living together in the UAE etc. no lectures please.

I have a very old CSA case which I last had contact in about 2003. It started in 2001 after we split. Very acrimonious & involved me being arrested and in court for assault etc. but later thrown out. I was also declared "mentally unstable” in a CAFCASS report, but the court ruled the officer did not have the medical qualifications to make such a diagnosis. I successfully applied for a contact order but it failed because PWC alienated the children from me. Parental Alienation is not officially recognised as child cruelty in UK legislature so contact has dwindled to nothing.

I raised numerous disputes with the CSA, mainly irregularity with how the CSA caseworker operated or interpreted child maintenance rules. Following protracted correspondence I abandoned my efforts. I was completely skint, run-down and exhausted so I quit the UK and got a job in Zurich Switzerland, problem solved.

The quarrel I had was the CSA hinged on two basic points. The CSA failed to allow me to pay my travel to work costs, and I understood the rules at the time the NRP travels a linear 150 miles a week between home and work qualified for an allowance. The other point the CSA assessed me on the basis I was living with relatives, a non-dependent while no such relative is living with me. The CSA even acknowledged my correct address by corresponding there, making several recorded lookups on NINO and telephoning my then employer.

The CSA assessment left me with income well below the jobseekers allowance rate I would otherwise receive if I were not working so I quit the UK. I had worked abroad extensively in the 1980s for a UK company so moving overseas is not new to me.

In 2006 the CSA sent bailiffs sent to my mother’s house in Surrey England which culminated in the bailiffs arrest for interfering with a neighbours car. I had previously driven the same car to collect my sons for a contact visit from PWC’s parents home and her brother came out to strike conversation with me. While doing so, I noticed him taking an interest in the registration number but I just I thought nothing of it. The Bailiff later said in his police interview he was told car was mine and trying to seize it as a collateral for unpaid child support. I was unaware I owed any CSA so I instructed Durham Legal Services to represent me in and clear it up.

DLS set about arranging appeals and tribunals, and in 2008, a CSA document said I was still being charged child maintenance even though there is no income to measure it by. The decision was that I stopped working to deliberately deprive myself of income for the purpose of child support. PWC is not working at all and claiming social.

Two years later. The appeal failed and the court sided with the CSA and said I am depriving myself of income so the money is still owed. The CSA put a charging order on my interest in the former marital home (occupied by PWC). The house was later sold (at a knock down price) and my two sons moved out and the CSA was paid.

More CSA arrears accrued so I travelled to the UK and signed on unemployed at a jobcentre. That created a change of circumstances with the CSA and stopped the assessment. Remaining arrears negligible amount i expect will be taken from my state pension from when I worked in the UK.

Last week I was speaking to lawyer mate of mine in Bahrain. He is nothing to do with family law but pointed out the appeals and tribunals Judge failed to properly explore the grounds of the decision I am appealing against. I intended to appeal against the CSA decision not allowing me to pay my travel to work & not allow me right to pay my own housing costs. If the CSA complied with those two basic points, the decision to say I am depriving myself of income would never have been taken in the first place. Also I would have been able to continue working in the UK, the CSA would have been paid thereon today and beyond. And contributed to the UK economy as a working family man.

I appreciate Durham legal Services should have spotted this, but in all fairness he did fight my corner, but now with hindsight I think the approach should have been to tackle the clerical errors rather than appealing CSA decisions taken as a result of making those errors. I find it hard to believe a Judge failed to see this. It was all right there in my complaint correspondence file with the CSA. Im not an expert in CSA but I just knew something the CSA officers were telling me didn’t sit right.

I am very concerned at the level of dishonesty the CSA had towards me. They told me I am unable to pay my housing costs but able to sign on in 2002 (the CSA knows this) and my housing costs met by the social. So I am puzzled why the CSA didn't let me pay it out of my own tax-paid earnings. Ditto travel to work. There is also compelling evidence CSA officers have a discretion to convert fiction into fact whenever they stand to gain.

The UAE is not a REMO participant because the law here says children automatically pass to me, or if mum files a maintenance claim. I don't maintain a UK address so I don 't have access to the UK Parliamentary Ombudsman. I must be UK resident and a constituent of an MP before I can ask him to intervene. However I may have access to DLS which I think is now called CMAC.

Via DLS, the CSA threatened prison and passport confiscation, but I am not too concerned. It wouldn't prevent overseas travel and it's a criminal offence here to threaten incarceration for non-payment of money or debt that is not lawfully or genuinely owed. Making such a threat here in the UAE can carry a death penalty.

I don't have a problem paying child maintenance. I only have a problem with the CSA caseworkers lying and cheating to dishonestly obtain money. It could be a criminal offence in the UK if a caseworker makes a false representation about my circumstances to obtain money (any comments on that?).

I also ask for some reasonable contact opportunity with my two sons. They don't even know they have a half-brother and I would like them to be introduced. My son here is two, he is great & confident little chap, highly sociable and intelligent and showing signs he could well be a gifted child (this is not a parental boast – its observation compared to his peers). I think they would get on very well. My PWC sons are timid and subdued and my eldest struggles with school. This maybe due to having no contact with me, (PWC's choice, not mine) my younger one was only two years old when I was arrested so he barely knows me at all. Neither of them gets much intellectual stimulation because PWC is not the sharpest tack in the box – so to speak. Since PWC moved she never formally told me their new address but a mate of mine in the UK traced where my sons are now living. So I am cautious about making contact as I feel it was PWC's intention to conceal their whereabouts from me.

I would also prefer the CSA comply with its child maintenance rules and correct their assessment all backdated before we discuss any new arrangements going forward. If the CSA chooses not to comply then it will be their choice and I will accept that and consider the matter closed.

Does anyone suggest a course of action? And if yes, who do I contact?

Please bear in mind the CSA does not acknowledge mail originating from a UAE PO Box address. It is known when the CSA is compelled to write to me they invent a UK address and send mail there on a basis I may have a connection. My Mothers address is their current favourite, but I also know she throws it away after that police & CSA bailiff fiasco in 2006. My Mother vehemently despises PWC for having me arrested by the police and screwing me of so much money, so I think it's a bad idea they have any indirect contact of any kind. I seriously think my mother would do the unthinkable if PWC attempted contacting her but she would welcome the children with open arms.

Should I just leave the CSA to its own devices for perpetuity and put it all behind me? We don't intend returning to the UK. Long-term we would like to live in southern France.

Sorry for the motor-mouth, but thank you for your time and I would appreciate your positive input.

Blob

Hi, firstly unless you are going to stay in UAE and not go to live in France then don't ignore them as they will find you in the long run!

Get your mother to return the letters that they send to them as not known at this address!

Talk to your mate about the threats that are made to you in your current location and see what the local law states, then send this in to the CSA, if nothing else will make them sit up a little.

To deal with the legal problems in this country, I believe you will have to get a Judicial Review done in the High Court, you can check the cost of this on the Court Service web site. The CSA hate these with a vengeance as it comes from the High Court and they have got to attend and do as they are told.

Your mother can take action of her own and get a Section 4 application against them to stop sending her your male, under the Protection of Harrisment legislation, if granted then the CSA will have to pay cost as well.

Hope this helps.

kelloggs36

JasAIR wrote: »

Hi, I’m a British national previously married with two sons (now 15 & 12) with my PWC in the UK. Officially I live in France with my new partner but we all live here in Abu Dhabi (United Arab Emirates) where I work and I have a young son aged 2. Yeh, I know! We’re not married & living together in the UAE etc. no lectures please.

I have a very old CSA case which I last had contact in about 2003. It started in 2001 after we split. Very acrimonious & involved me being arrested and in court for assault etc. but later thrown out. I was also declared "mentally unstable” in a CAFCASS report, but the court ruled the officer did not have the medical qualifications to make such a diagnosis. I successfully applied for a contact order but it failed because PWC alienated the children from me. Parental Alienation is not officially recognised as child cruelty in UK legislature so contact has dwindled to nothing.

I raised numerous disputes with the CSA, mainly irregularity with how the CSA caseworker operated or interpreted child maintenance rules. Following protracted correspondence I abandoned my efforts. I was completely skint, run-down and exhausted so I quit the UK and got a job in Zurich Switzerland, problem solved.

The quarrel I had was the CSA hinged on two basic points. The CSA failed to allow me to pay my travel to work costs, and I understood the rules at the time the NRP travels a linear 150 miles a week between home and work qualified for an allowance. how many miles per week did you actually travel and how much was the linear amount? ie from postcode to postcode in a straight line, how many miles would that have been?The other point the CSA assessed me on the basis I was living with relatives, a non-dependent while no such relative is living with me. where were you living, and on what basis was the decision made that you were living in the same property as relatives?The CSA even acknowledged my correct address by corresponding there, making several recorded lookups on NINO and telephoning my then employer.

The CSA assessment left me with income well below the jobseekers allowance rate I would otherwise receive if I were not working so I quit the UK. probably why they decided the deprivation of income - if this was the reason, then the decision was indeed correct.I had worked abroad extensively in the 1980s for a UK company so moving overseas is not new to me.

In 2006 the CSA sent bailiffs sent to my mother’s house in Surrey England which culminated in the bailiffs arrest for interfering with a neighbours car. odd as they would have had to have got evidence from the DVLA of the owner before such action could be taken - bailiffs are who you should be complaining about though here, not the CSAI had previously driven the same car to collect my sons for a contact visit from PWC’s parents home and her brother came out to strike conversation with me. While doing so, I noticed him taking an interest in the registration number but I just I thought nothing of it. The Bailiff later said in his police interview he was told car was mine and trying to seize it as a collateral for unpaid child support. I was unaware I owed any CSA so I instructed Durham Legal Services to represent me in and clear it up.

DLS set about arranging appeals and tribunals, and in 2008, a CSA document said I was still being charged child maintenance even though there is no income to measure it by. The decision was that I stopped working to deliberately deprive myself of income for the purpose of child support. in previous paragraph, you actually stated that this was the case.PWC is not working at all and claiming social.

Two years later. The appeal failed and the court sided with the CSA and said I am depriving myself of income so the money is still owed. The CSA put a charging order on my interest in the former marital home (occupied by PWC). The house was later sold (at a knock down price) and my two sons moved out and the CSA was paid.

More CSA arrears accrued so I travelled to the UK and signed on unemployed at a jobcentre. That created a change of circumstances with the CSA and stopped the assessment. Remaining arrears negligible amount i expect will be taken from my state pension from when I worked in the UK.

Last week I was speaking to lawyer mate of mine in Bahrain. He is nothing to do with family law but pointed out the appeals and tribunals Judge failed to properly explore the grounds of the decision I am appealing against. based on your version of events, rather than knowing the full details - do you have the statement of reasons from the tribunal hearing>I intended to appeal against the CSA decision not allowing me to pay my travel to work & not allow me right to pay my own housing costs. If the CSA complied with those two basic points, the decision to say I am depriving myself of income would never have been taken in the first place. but you are confirming that you have quit due to the CSA actions - so you did deprive yourself of the income in order to avoid paying the CSA.Also I would have been able to continue working in the UK, the CSA would have been paid thereon today and beyond. And contributed to the UK economy as a working family man.

I appreciate Durham legal Services should have spotted this, but in all fairness he did fight my corner, but now with hindsight I think the approach should have been to tackle the clerical errors rather than appealing CSA decisions taken as a result of making those errors. what are the clerical errors? What you have stated so far are decisions, not clerical errors and you have already appealled and lost. Did you apply to get the decisions set aside on any point of law? If not, then it is too late now.I find it hard to believe a Judge failed to see this. It was all right there in my complaint correspondence file with the CSA. Im not an expert in CSA but I just knew something the CSA officers were telling me didn’t sit right.

I am very concerned at the level of dishonesty the CSA had towards me. They told me I am unable to pay my housing costs but able to sign on in 2002 (the CSA knows this) and my housing costs met by the social. So I am puzzled why the CSA didn't let me pay it out of my own tax-paid earnings. Ditto travel to work. There is also compelling evidence CSA officers have a discretion to convert fiction into fact whenever they stand to gain.

The UAE is not a REMO participant because the law here says children automatically pass to me, or if mum files a maintenance claim. I don't maintain a UK address so I don 't have access to the UK Parliamentary Ombudsman. I must be UK resident and a constituent of an MP before I can ask him to intervene. However I may have access to DLS which I think is now called CMAC.

Via DLS, the CSA threatened prison and passport confiscation, but I am not too concerned. It wouldn't prevent overseas travel and it's a criminal offence here to threaten incarceration for non-payment of money or debt that is not lawfully or genuinely owed. Making such a threat here in the UAE can carry a death penalty.

I don't have a problem paying child maintenance. I only have a problem with the CSA caseworkers lying and cheating to dishonestly obtain money. It could be a criminal offence in the UK if a caseworker makes a false representation about my circumstances to obtain money (any comments on that?).

I also ask for some reasonable contact opportunity with my two sons. They don't even know they have a half-brother and I would like them to be introduced. My son here is two, he is great & confident little chap, highly sociable and intelligent and showing signs he could well be a gifted child (this is not a parental boast – its observation compared to his peers). I think they would get on very well. My PWC sons are timid and subdued and my eldest struggles with school. This maybe due to having no contact with me, (PWC's choice, not mine) my younger one was only two years old when I was arrested so he barely knows me at all. Neither of them gets much intellectual stimulation because PWC is not the sharpest tack in the box – so to speak. Since PWC moved she never formally told me their new address but a mate of mine in the UK traced where my sons are now living. So I am cautious about making contact as I feel it was PWC's intention to conceal their whereabouts from me.

I would also prefer the CSA comply with its child maintenance rules and correct their assessment all backdated before we discuss any new arrangements going forward. If the CSA chooses not to comply then it will be their choice and I will accept that and consider the matter closed.

Does anyone suggest a course of action? And if yes, who do I contact?

Please bear in mind the CSA does not acknowledge mail originating from a UAE PO Box address. It is known when the CSA is compelled to write to me they invent a UK address and send mail there on a basis I may have a connection. My Mothers address is their current favourite, but I also know she throws it away after that police & CSA bailiff fiasco in 2006. My Mother vehemently despises PWC for having me arrested by the police and screwing me of so much money, so I think it's a bad idea they have any indirect contact of any kind. I seriously think my mother would do the unthinkable if PWC attempted contacting her but she would welcome the children with open arms.

Should I just leave the CSA to its own devices for perpetuity and put it all behind me? We don't intend returning to the UK. Long-term we would like to live in southern France.

Sorry for the motor-mouth, but thank you for your time and I would appreciate your positive input.

........................................................

JasAIR

Hi Blob. I don’t need to hide from anyone, the CSA knows where I am but the CSA choose to pretend not to. I appreciate the CSA cant do much about UAE laws, so I don’t need to contact the CSA to give free legal advice on French child maintenance law either. The CSA is not the reason why I work in Abu Dhabi.

If the CSA tried a REMO application in the Toulouse Court of First Instance (Civil division) then I am privy to knowledge the application will fail. It is because the claimant parent cannot prove I abandoned my children. I have a UK police document proving my absence from children is imposed. It is an arrest and bail sheet stating I must not return to the address my children are living at. It is now expired but it can contest or revoke a UK child maintenance liability in France. I am not too worried about future CSA repercussions because I will only ask the CSA to comply with its rules before we can take any further steps. We are quite safe both in France and the UAE.

I don't really want to return the UK to start a judicial review because I understand this is for contesting points of law. These are two simple clerical errors nothing to do with points of law. Besides its very expensive and its not my problem getting the CSA to comply with its rules, Compliance is a CSA responsibility and the CSA who are losing out and the longer they fail to comply. The choice is theirs for which I have no control.

My mother doesn't need to take action against bailiffs, they have paid the penalty and the matter is settled.

JasAIR

Hi Kelloggs, The mileage between the two postcodes is more than 24 miles in each direction x 10 trips per week so I fall well into the CSA travel to work remit. The CSA corresponded with both my employer and me concurrently which confirms they were aware of the locations, but their assessment returned "£0.00". I consider that to be a clerical error and not a decision.

There is no basis shown to me there was any relative lived with me or within 90 miles of the address. I think the CSA just made that one up, or convert fiction into fact to make a gain.

The CSA legislation says- "deliberately deprives himself of income". This is not the case & I am not sure how you have interpreted that from my post.

The CSA is appears to claims I left my employ voluntarily, and that is not true because It was imposed by the CSA forcing me to live on an earned income that is much lower than the statutory jobseekers allowance rate and housing benefit. I any event, there was not enough money to pay my travel to wor costs so continuing my employ was physically impossible.

My argument is the CSA should have complied with its rules on travel to work and housing costs and my leaving employment would never have happened in the first place. The CSA would otherwise have still been paid had it chosen to comply.

With afterthought, I think I Durham Legal Services should have had the CSA correct the clerical errors – travel to work, and failure to pay housing costs, rather then appeal against decisions made as a result of those clerical errors.

My lawyer guy in Bahrain thinks the tribunal Judge is not the full ticket. My guy was able to spot it in just a few minutes and he is not even trained on CSA law. He is a commercial property lawyer.

I don’t need to make a complaint against bailiffs because I never had any direct or indirect contact with them. My mother instructed lawyers who made formal complaints at court and she was awarded £1500 compensation plus £3500 lawyers fees. Her neighbour was awarded £500 for the dent in her car when the bailiff tried to fix a wheel clamp to it. All were paid out of the Bailiffs certificate bond.

The bailiff was also cautioned by police for intending to make a false representation with intent to defraud as to how much money the CSA said was owed. While being processed at the police custody suite, he was in possession of a document which implied he intended to add "fees" to the liability order when there is no contract between us or legislation enabling him to charge fees in this way. I personally don't have an issue with any bailiff and the matter is closed.

This seems to confirm the UK authorities take a dim view on corruption and breach of trust in public sector, and I hope the magistrate would take the same view if a CSA officer wants me to return to Great Britain and attend a committal to prison hearing.

I can ask the magistrate to order an investigation by the SFO and, unlike liability order hearings, magistrates apparently do have that power when presiding committal hearings. I can use the proceedings to open a can of worms and could well result in the assessment being corrected as there is apparently no time limits on backdating a clerical error.

Are there any other avenues I can follow to achieve a corrected assessment?

If none, then I am happy to close the case and bin it. We can leave the CSA to sort out its own problems because its not my place to spend money on getting the CSA to comply when it is cheaper for us to opt-out of the UK tax economy completely. More fool the CSA id say, but Im happy to give the CSA an opportunity to put things right before I bin it.

kelloggs36

The CSA assessment left me with income well below the jobseekers allowance rate I would otherwise receive if I were not working so I quit the UK

That is deprivation as you left because you say the CSA left you with below the JSA amount - it was a decision based on your CSA case.

kelloggs36

If you appealled about the mileage, what did the statement of reasons say? If you got a decision which was not what you wanted, and you feel was wrong in law, then you could have taken it to the higher tribunal on the points of law - did you do this?

kelloggs36

The only way to get them to change the assessments is to appeal - the appeal tribunal will look at the facts of the case and decide if the CSA is correct or not - and they ruled that they were correct.

missbunbury

JasAIR wrote: »

My lawyer guy in Bahrain thinks the tribunal Judge is not the full ticket. My guy was able to spot it in just a few minutes and he is not even trained on CSA law. He is a commercial property lawyer.

Uh...wouldn't this make it less likely that he is right, not more? If I were you I would speak to a lawyer who is trained in child support law. There's nowhere near enough concrete information in your posts to allow me to make an informed judgement, but it strikes me that if, as you say, you are entirely unconcerned about future repercussions, you'd be best off leaving the whole thing alone rather than consulting unsuitable professionals and acting on their advice. If on the other hand you are wanting to get it sorted, my first avenue to explore would be precisely how they came to the £0.00 allowance for travel to work costs. You may be assuming that they will have looked at where you lived and where you worked and doing the maths themselves, but in fact you would have been required to inform them of these costs, possibly with proof - if you never did this then that is where the £0.00 allowance comes from and you will struggle to have it overturned.

JasAIR

kelloggs36 wrote: »

That is deprivation as you left because you say the CSA left you with below the JSA amount - it was a decision based on your CSA case.

I thought deprivation of income is where the worker leaves his employ under his won free will.

For me, it was imposed, I didnt have a choice. Nett income - TTW - housing = less than JSA.

JasAIR

kelloggs36 wrote: »

If you appealled about the mileage, what did the statement of reasons say? If you got a decision which was not what you wanted, and you feel was wrong in law, then you could have taken it to the higher tribunal on the points of law - did you do this?

o

I'll be honest, I didnt know I could appeal, the zero TTW calculation was discovered from a SAR. I only knew which only knew unemployed people were earning much more than me. So I joined them.