Big bill from council - Who's responsible?

FarmerGilesUK

Hi all

Just having a major issue with drainage at the property I rent out.

Apparently they've had an ongoing problem with a drain blockage that I've only just found out about.

My previous tenant (who died unexpectedly before Xmas) had chosen not to inform me about this, so the first I know about it is when I receive an enforcement notice from the Council, 24 hours after the notice expired.

The notice (to clear the blockage) was hand delivered to my current tenants on the 11th April by a chap from the council. Managing agents email me the notice on the 14th April - Notice expired on the 13th. According to the managing agent, the tenants dropped the notice in to their office on the 14th.

Council have therefore now engaged a contractor to clear the blockage.

This leaves me facing a potentially very large bill as the council's contractor are having serious problems clearing the blockage. 3 visits so far and the drains are still blocked.

My view on this is that *if* they had let me know about this immediately, I could have got my own contractor in to clear the drain and at the very least could have avoided the project management costs that the council say they will levy on top of the actual work.

I'm inclined to think that I should pass at least some of the costs on to my tenant (who is imo negligent in not informing me immediately of the notice).

Where do I stand on this?

Regards

sequence

Since there's an agent involved, it's more than likely that the tenant informed the agent, but the message wasn't passed along, which is why the council got involved?

Jenniefour

FarmerGilesUK wrote: »

Hi all


Apparently they've had an ongoing problem with a drain blockage that I've only just found out about.

Things seem to have got very far on without your finding out - I can't imagine tenants will have called in the council without having contacted the agents, on possibly several occasions, before taking the step of involving the council. That's what people do when they're getting no response, or major issues are not being dealt with in a timely manner. Could it be that the tenants were at the end of their tether - I can't imagine it's pleasant putting up with serious drain blockages.

If, as you say, you've only just been informed you need to find out first what's been going on with the agents, before jumping to conclusions about the tenants.

Hand delived on the 11th - it may have been hand delivered but were the tenants actually there at the time i.e. not on holiday. I would have thought that the council would deliver such notices directly to the landlord in those situations.

I would chalk it up to expereince - and make absolutely sure that your tenants have some way of contacting you directly in future in the event the agents are being lax.

BitterAndTwisted

However long this process has been and by whatever means you were notified about the enforcement notice, the bill is yours.

Enforcement notices aren't issued within five minutes of the council becoming aware of the problem with the property. It surprises me that your new tenants would go ahead and contact the council without first making the agents aware that this problem existed and making a request for them to address it on your behalf or for you to make the arrangements yourself.

I would be asking some very searching questions of the agents.

bris

I think it would be very unfair to try and blame the current tenant, who delivered the hand delivered notice from the council guy to the agents in a timely manner, 11th to the 14th is pretty quick, it's not his fault all the other notices went undelivered. The blame here clearly lies with the old tenant who had all the original notices way back before xmas and failed to re direct them.
Any way it goes, the bill was always going to be your's. It may have been a bit cheaper getting your own people in but you will never really know that for sure now.

DannyboyMidlands

Your agent is taking you for a ride. What do you pay them for? A couple of credit checks that help you to sleep more soundly? They've certainly shown their true colours with this farce. The buck stops with you I'm afraid and the bill is yours. It's hardly the tenants fault for taking all of 2 or 3 days to get the notice to the agent. In fact, 2 or 3 days is pretty rapid. What should they do, take time off work to look after your investment for you?

princeofpounds

Again I suspect it is more likely to be an agent issue than a tenant one, if the previous tenant was a 'normal' person. This is because:

a) I have had long experience of agents!
and
b) blockages are a major pain for a tenant who actually has to live with them, so you are going to get them sorted right away unless you have personal issues that cloud your judgement.

Having said that, if the previous tenant was ill, a drunk, or just not very bright it's possible they messed it up somehow.

N79

It would be unlikely for the council to go ahead without trying to contact the LL direct - so I tend to agree that the agent is probably the problem. Get the council to provide you with copies of all the notices they have served along with the addressee, date and address of service. There will be a lot - it takes months normally for a council to actually take action. Once you have the list, you can see who has failed to pass them along.

Bear in mind that to have any chance at all of either T being partially liable you will need a clause in your tenancy agreement requiring them to pass on notices addressed to you or addressed to the owner.

anotherginger

N79 wrote: »

It would be unlikely for the council to go ahead without trying to contact the LL direct - so I tend to agree that the agent is probably the problem. Get the council to provide you with copies of all the notices they have served along with the addressee, date and address of service.

not true, the notice can be served on the owner OR occupier, so its up to the tenant to advise the agent/landlord.

FarmerGilesUK

Just to clarify

Council say that the notice was hand delivered to the tenant on the Monday. Deadline before the council took action was on the Wednesday - only 2 days warning which seems unreasonable, however the council maintain this was necessary as it is an "Environmental Health" issue.

Agents maintain that the tenant hand delivered the notice to their office on the Thursday - I was notified shortly after by email.

I agree that under normal circumstances 2-3 days would be quite acceptable, however I do not think it is reasonable that any tenant should allow an obviously urgent deadline to expire before passing on a communication of this type, effectively denying the LL any chance to deal with it before the council took over.

Actually I suspect that the agent received the letter before the Thursday and I'm currently trying to establish exactly when the letter was passed on to the agent.

BTW I have no direct dealings or contact with my tenants, all communications are via the managing agent.

Jonesya

FarmerGilesUK wrote: »

Council say that the notice was hand delivered to the tenant on the Monday. Deadline before the council took action was on the Wednesday - only 2 days warning which seems unreasonable, however the council maintain this was necessary as it is an "Environmental Health" issue.

How was the notice issued - was it a sealed letter and who was it addressed to? Did your tenants open and read the letter or did they simply forward unopened it onto the managing agent? How do you know the tenants knew it was urgent?