MSE News: Yorkshire and Norwich & Peterborough building societies to merge

Former_MSE_Helen

This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

"The pair have agreed a merger that will create a combined 3 million members and 224 branches ..."

Read the full story:
Yorkshire and Norwich & Peterborough building societies to merge

low_spen

The questions are- - - - -

Are the Yorkshire B.S. getting too big for their boots and their feet growing too quickly?

After "merging" with the Barnsley, then the Chelsea, will they be able to amalgamate everything especially their I.T.

Remember too that Cornish leaves at the end of the year.

premierfella

Fair concerns indeed.

Geographically it doesn't seem to bad a fit though. The IT issue seems to have been dealt with in the short term by maintaining the existing brands and offering different products. It seems they will be doing much the same with the N&P, which seems to make sense (particularly given the current account portfolio N&P brings with it).

Milarky

Yorkshire has said consideration will be given to savers who exceed this amount if they hold accounts with both societies.

Ha! That'll be the newly enriched ones who put money into KDS then....

[Deleted User]

Wow the yorkshire bs is merging so many other BS's now
Getting a lot for them mmm

7sefton

premierfella wrote: »

Fair concerns indeed.

Geographically it doesn't seem to bad a fit though. The IT issue seems to have been dealt with in the short term by maintaining the existing brands and offering different products. It seems they will be doing much the same with the N&P, which seems to make sense (particularly given the current account portfolio N&P brings with it).

I actually thought N&P's current account portfolio would be something that would put Yorkshire off buying them... YBS have zero experience in bank accounts and have never even flirted with the idea of offering one. Indeed, they make a virtue out of the fact that they are the biggest building society that sticks to 'the basics' - i.e. savings and mortgages. Their cash transactor account is the nearest they get to a current account and is exceptionally limited in its facilities. Now YBS have an interesting choice: continue to offer banking facilities just to customers of their smaller, sub-brand of N&P (with only a regional branch network) or put the time, money and effort into launching a full YBS-branded current account service.

Also, I really don't understand why YBS seem to have a policy of keeping these multiple brands (which, after swallowing N&P, means they operate via 4 different names). I doubt whether there is any real value or local pride in these regional names - most wouldn't register on an ordinary person's radar and Chelsea was even tarnished with bad debts and Iceland. Keeping the brands separate also prevents access to a truly national branch network and prevents the Yorkshire brand from becoming as big as it could be. Surely it would be worth the initial investment in rebrand the 3 sub-brands to really beef up the main Yorkshire name?

Multi brand strategies only works for Lloyds Banking Group because the Halifax brand is perceived as so different to Lloyds TSB... a building society is a building society, and YBS should really consolidate their position.

EarthBoy

7sefton wrote: »

Now YBS have an interesting choice: continue to offer banking facilities just to customers of their smaller, sub-brand of N&P (with only a regional branch network) or put the time, money and effort into launching a full YBS-branded current account service..

The signs are that they might roll out the current account to the rest of the group. In the press release, Ian Cornish states:

"We will build on N&P’s strong brand and the value it has delivered to its members, while gaining the opportunity to consider developing our own products in areas where N&P has complementary capabilities and expertise, such as the current account market."

http://www.ybs.co.uk/your_society/press-release-merger-with-nandp.html

7sefton wrote: »

Also, I really don't understand why YBS seem to have a policy of keeping these multiple brands (which, after swallowing N&P, means they operate via 4 different names). I doubt whether there is any real value or local pride in these regional names ..

Two reasons, I think. 1) The board of the building society being taken over is more likely to agree to the merger if their brand is being retained. It makes it look as if they are not giving up the ghost entirely, and are still keeping their "local" connections. 2) It makes the merger easier because the Yorkshire can keep all the IT systems separate to start with. They only have to integrate them slowly and gradually. It would be very expensive and more complicated to abandon the old brands and integrate everything from day one.

My own feeling is that they will keep the separate identities for a few years before re-branding them under the Yorkshire name.

premierfella

As per EarthBoy - those two are the main reasons for keeping the brands in the short term. I would be very surprised if the Chelsea, Barnsley and N&P names are retained in the branch network for more than 3 years (i.e. once all branches are running off identical IT systems and all trained on Yorkshire BS policies and procedures). I see the "mutual plus" model of trying to create a linked network of local building societies for customers is being abandoned. It would seem at odds with that decision for the Yorkshire to retain a similar setup internally in the longer term for its own brands.

There is an argument to retain "brands" on the internet, but it is a weak one for building societies who don't want to tarnish their "treating customers fairly" reputation by offering different rates on similar products via the different "brand" websites.

Mithos

7sefton wrote: »

Also, I really don't understand why YBS seem to have a policy of keeping these multiple brands (which, after swallowing N&P, means they operate via 4 different names). I doubt whether there is any real value or local pride in these regional names - most wouldn't register on an ordinary person's radar and Chelsea was even tarnished with bad debts and Iceland. Keeping the brands separate also prevents access to a truly national branch network and prevents the Yorkshire brand from becoming as big as it could be. Surely it would be worth the initial investment in rebrand the 3 sub-brands to really beef up the main Yorkshire name?

Multi brand strategies only works for Lloyds Banking Group because the Halifax brand is perceived as so different to Lloyds TSB... a building society is a building society, and YBS should really consolidate their position.

I disagree, I was with both Chelsea and Yorkshire, and the Chelsea style always did it for me, they hit everything perfectly with the letters, website and branch, and looking back I always tended to favor their accounts over Yorkshires until I left only a token sum with them, while the rest of my savings steadily grew and stayed with Chelsea. Maybe it was the free coffee!

If they get rid of the Chelsea branding I think I would consider shutting off from the Yorkshire group totally. Saying that I got a Chelsea statement for an account the other day and it was abysmal, awful font and just shoddy design. Then a letter in large childlike font arrived. Looked ridiculous. I'm pretty sure one of the Chelsea head offices was shut down so suspect the Yorkshire are doing the printing and marketing now. I understand things need to be brought in line but I cant believe people rate their branding style over Chelsea's professional one?


RE: Iain Cornish... I think he seems like a good guy. I noticed he donated all his bonus to charity this year and I think last year too. Strange he is leaving when things are so successful, perhaps he thinks it wont last, or if he is truly an ethical man maybe he disagrees with something the board is pushing for.


Looking where the branches of each group actually are...

Yorkshire - North
Chelsea - London, Central, and South West.
N&P - East


I think they are after a countrywide branch network.

armith

I'm more than a little annoyed that the first thing I knew about any possible merger was in the newspaper. The newsletters that N&P send out never give any useful information about how the Society is run. Some sort of letter to members would have been a nice gesture, answering things like:

- Will they still offer free overseas cash withdrawels?
- They are the last building society in my town, are they committed to staying?
- If they are financially so weak why have they just gone through a major rebranding exercise?

What would happen if the members of the society voted 'No' to the merger?

studio_two

7sefton wrote: »

Also, I really don't understand why YBS seem to have a policy of keeping these multiple brands. I doubt whether there is any real value or local pride in these regional names.

The Barnsley Building Society sponsors Barnsley FC in the Championship. They also operate a "Reds Saver" Account that benefits the Club.

Interestingly, the sponsorship will not be renewed at the end of the current season, so who knows where the brand will go from there..

Stephen