Workers rights

ident

First i am sorry if i can not ask this here. I am for Two reasons.

1) I can not find a suitable sub section

2) There are many very clever people here

Also this is urgent for me since i am worried.

My mum is 62 and has waitresses/Hot plate for a college for 25 years and never had any issue there. In the past 6 Months they have got a private company in to handle the running of the college catering for the students.

The new butler has decided to make them wear a man's shirt, waist coat, Thick bow tie, Long black apron, Hat and boots.

I understand the hat and smart dress side but this is summer. My mum constantly nearly feels like fainting it is so hot. Surely there is laws to make people work in unbearable conditions?

Now to make things even worse the new head chef (arrived same time as the butler) has removed the kitchens wall mounted fan, ordered them not to open any windows even though they are meshed to stop flys etc. But down his end he is allowed the door open which is meshed.....

Finally they get a lot of turn over with agency staff. For 25 years my mum has had this locker and now the chef wants it gone. It is around 20x20 inches.

I do not want to sound petty but is there any help out there for my mum?

Thanks for reading.

squeaky

Hi,

The Employment & Jobseeking board will be the best one for you here. The sticky has a couple of good links to worker's rights, so I'll move the thread across there for you.

Good luck

Forum_Team wrote:

Hi, Martin’s asked me to post this in these circumstances: I’ve asked Board Guides to move threads if they’ll receive a better response elsewhere (please see this rule) so this post/thread has been moved to another board, where it should get more replies. If you have any questions about this policy please email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com.

dreamypuma

Employers need to provide a minimum standard of workplace as set out in the Workplace H&S and Welfare Regulations 1992. These prescribe certain conditions.

If the uniform your mother is wearing poses a risk to her well-being then she should identify this to her employer. They are obliged to carry out a suitable and sufficient risk assessment of any foreseeable hazards.

If done by a competent individual, this should prescribe reasonable control measures, such as more frequent rest breaks, changes in uniform, more suitable ventilation etc. It is then the employers responsibility to implement these and audit and review the effectiveness of these control measures.

The risk assessment would be a statutory requirement under the Management of H&S at Work Regulations 1999. Failure to do so, may expose them to prosecution under the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974

The locker issue is more than likely an entirely different kettle of fish, more about regime change. As your mother is working in an catering environment, is she not provided with a changing facility?

I assume your mother was TUPE'd over to this new contractor?

Oldernotwiser

Is your mother in a union?

dickydonkin

The new butler has decided to make them wear a man's shirt, waist coat, Thick bow tie, Long black apron, Hat and boots.

As opposed to........................? What was the OP's mother wearing previously?

I cannot see what the issue is here in respect of clothing.

Aprons, hats and especially boots (anti slip) are generally a requirement in any kitchen either for hygiene, safety or both. These generally do not present a risk to the wearer (unless worn incorrectly, damaged etc.) therefore I cannot see any reason to 'risk assess' the uniform (unless there is a requirement under PPE regulations) which could relate to shoe soles and hand protection. This may have already been done by the new provider and is implemented into their safety/hygiene policy.

I have just carried out a full risk assessment on a large kitchen at a local college (including equipment) and recommended certain actions and implemented safe systems of work therefore kitchen safety is topical for me.

It seems to me that the uniform provided is covering hygiene aspects and due to hot surfaces, potentially slippery floors and hot liquids that are abundant in kitchens, is also providing suitable protection for body and feet.

As for the temperature - well kitchens by their very nature are hot working areas and temperatures are very difficult to control.

I don't like fans in kitchens either (other than extractor fans of course). They can accumulate grease and blow contamination around a hygienic area as well as dispersing ingredients such as flour all over the place.

I noted that the OP's mother was a 'waitress' therefore that would suggest to me that she is not in the kitchen area all of her working day and by the nature of that type of job, it would allow access to other cooler areas such as the dining halls.

I am not suggesting that this is the case here but many people are resistant to change.

The risk assessment would be a statutory requirement under the Management of H&S at Work Regulations 1999. Failure to do so, may expose them to prosecution under the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974

Failing to risk assess could potentially lead to prosecution under regulation 3 of the management regulations only - prosecution under the HASWA would likely be as a result of an accident (usually under section 2), however, if the process, activity on which an accident occurred had not been risk assessed or the assessment was not deemed suitable and sufficient, then that breach will also be considered.

dark_lady

I think what the OP is worried about is her mum getting overly hot in that get up and then passing out. What if she passes out over a hot plate or while she is serving a customer hot soup. Would you like to be that customer? Im willing to bet that if you were, not only would you be humming a different tune but i bet you would also be putting a claim in.

dickydonkin

dark_lady wrote: »

I think what the OP is worried about is her mum getting overly hot in that get up and then passing out. What if she passes out over a hot plate or while she is serving a customer hot soup. Would you like to be that customer? Im willing to bet that if you were, not only would you be humming a different tune but i bet you would also be putting a claim in.

A claim based on what?

If I was indeed a customer, I would feel more content that the staff serving my food looked clean and tidy, wore hats to prevent hairs or dandruff in my food and were working in a safe environment with protective clothing and footwear.

Which is why it is possible the new F&B provider has ensured their staff are wearing appropriate safety and hygienic clothing to prevent injury to their staff and contaminating customers food and avoiding claims on both counts.

The company need to consider collectively - as opposed to one individual objecting about the new providers uniform - and many may suggest that there lies the crux of the issue - especially if the OP's mother has been TUPE'd after 25 years.

I queried earlier in response to the OP's question what the new 'get up' replaced - she must have worn a hat, safety boots/shoes and possibly some type of protective overall - if not - she should have been.

Kitchens are a hot working environment, staff have to wear suitable clothing for hygiene and safety reasons - that is a fact and cannot be disputed.

However, again, the OP's mother is actually a waitress and by virtue of the nature of that role, does not require to be confined to a kitchen throughout her shift.

The clue is in the items of clothing required to be worn which suggests that there is obvious interface with customers.

I agree that such items of clothing are unsuitable for a chef or other kitchen based workers confined to that environment throughout the shift - but the OP's mother is not a chef, cook or kitchen porter, but I concede that such a role may require occasional entry into the kitchen and as such, will now be conforming to hygiene and safety requirements due to the appropriate workwear.

I can state with a degree of certainty that workers at the college who are confined to the kitchen do not have to wear the same uniform, but still have to wear items of clothing commensurate for their roles - which will also be uncomfortable in such an environment.

I fully understand the OP's concerns about her mother - but unless the clothing (that will quite likely be a mandatory uniform throughout the company) is for some reason creating a risk to anyone, then I just fail to see what the problem is.

Some could suggest that having worked for a company for 25 years with 'no issues' in the past, there is resentment at having to wear a 'mans shirt' and other items of uniform.

The only 'tune I am humming' is that I just fail to see what the problem is based on the post and I thought it would be only a matter of time before the 'C' word (Claim) entered the equation.

Bakers and foundry workers also have similar problems working in heat for the majority of their shifts, and foundry workers in particular have to wear heavy items of protective equipment.

Would it be wise to suggest that these workers can work in tee shirts and shorts because it is hot?

The waiters uniform is not unreasonable and again, I just wonder what it was replacing - the OP's mother was obviously not working naked!

What if she passes out over a hot plate or while she is serving a customer hot soup.

I was not aware that customers are allowed in a hot kitchen to be served hot soup and dinners - as I stated, she is a waitress, the soup will almost certainly be served from a soup kettle within the dining area (possibly self service).

dseventy

ident wrote: »

I do not want to sound petty ........

Oh but it just is! It really is! Have you told your mum this? You should, someone should.

dpassmore's advice is spot on, can you print it and let her see it?

D70

dark_lady

Actually d passmore i would like to apologise for my earlier post. It was a bit of an over the top reaction and Im sorry.
It brought back memories of working in a kitchen in a nursing home when i was seventeen. It was the hot summer of 1990 and another kitchen assistant was moving a pan of potatos which were in boiling water. She misjudged where the hot plate was and the potatos complete with boiling water tipped everywhere missing me and her by no more than inches. She said afterwards where the sweat was in her eyes she couldnt see where the hot plate was properly and the edge of it was blurred. So we only just escaped being badly burned.
So again i am sorry for my earlier post. It was just a knee jerk reaction to this experience.

dickydonkin

dark_lady wrote: »

Actually d passmore i would like to apologise for my earlier post. It was a bit of an over the top reaction and Im sorry.
It brought back memories of working in a kitchen in a nursing home when i was seventeen. It was the hot summer of 1990 and another kitchen assistant was moving a pan of potatos which were in boiling water. She misjudged where the hot plate was and the potatos complete with boiling water tipped everywhere missing me and her by no more than inches. She said afterwards where the sweat was in her eyes she couldnt see where the hot plate was properly and the edge of it was blurred. So we only just escaped being badly burned.
So again i am sorry for my earlier post. It was just a knee jerk reaction to this experience.

dark lady - no problem - there is certainly no need to feel you have to apologise - none whatsoever.

Different viewpoints and experiences are what this forum is all about and there is nothing wrong in debating them.

I always attempt to provide examples of personal experiences, my interpretation of legislation to certain situations and previous training which collectively results in my responses being correct or helpful - hopefully most are!!

Of course we all have differences of opinions - and in relation to the OP's situation, I can fully understand her concerns about her mother - if it was my mother who was worried about aspects of her work then I would be concerned as well, but one has to stand back from personal situations and see the real picture from a practical and legal perspective and I hope I gave constructive feedback (based on the OP's post) of the situation.

I fully appreciate that kitchens can be dangerous places what with knives, hot surfaces, hot liquids, thermal discomfort and slip/trip hazards (your personal experience highlights that), but in the case of the OP, provided that other safety aspect of the kitchen were in order, what seems a major issue for the OP's mother, could be perceived as less important in the bigger picture.

If I were to suggest a way to resolve the situation with the OP is to perhaps ensure that her issues are communicated to those who can do something about it.

I hope I don't give the impression I am trivialising the OP's situation as thermal discomfort is a serious issue in such a working environment, but in the same position as the OP's mother, I would attempt to discuss the issues with management who will hopefully be able to go some way to resolve the situation.