Auctions (not eBay)

porto_bello

The thing that concerns me about B & M auction houses is shill bidding. You've got no idea who you're bidding against and there are no records of which bidders bid on which items (which is the shill bidding giveaway on ebay).

A friend of mine tried to sell her flat this way and was delighted when it reached the price she wanted. She was gutted to subsequently learn that not just the winning bidder, but EVERY bidder and EVERY bid was actually from members of the auctioneer's team - simply there to drum up interest and prices! :eek:

RFW

porto_bello wrote: »

The thing that concerns me about B & M auction houses is shill bidding. You've got no idea who you're bidding against and there are no records of which bidders bid on which items (which is the shill bidding giveaway on ebay).

A friend of mine tried to sell her flat this way and was delighted when it reached the price she wanted. She was gutted to subsequently learn that not just the winning bidder, but EVERY bidder and EVERY bid was actually from members of the auctioneer's team - simply there to drum up interest and prices! :eek:

Not sure why it should be a problem, if you're happy to pay £200 for something and you get it for £150 why would you be bothered that no one else was bidding?
Some auction houses will genuinely sell what they have without reserve, others will have reserves on items and they may bid on behalf of the vendor to get nearer to the reserve price.
There are some that are a bit too dishonest, but as long as you have the prices you are willing to pay and don't go over then you shouldn't be affected by it.
Look at it from the point of view of the seller, if you were selling your house (or whatever) you wouldn't be pleased if it went for £10 because there were only a couple of bidders in the room and only one of them was bidding, it's the auctioneer's safety net to bid when it is called for.

porto_bello

RFW wrote: »

Not sure why it should be a problem, if you're happy to pay £200 for something and you get it for £150 why would you be bothered that no one else was bidding?
Some auction houses will genuinely sell what they have without reserve, others will have reserves on items and they may bid on behalf of the vendor to get nearer to the reserve price.
There are some that are a bit too dishonest, but as long as you have the prices you are willing to pay and don't go over then you shouldn't be affected by it.
Look at it from the point of view of the seller, if you were selling your house (or whatever) you wouldn't be pleased if it went for £10 because there were only a couple of bidders in the room and only one of them was bidding, it's the auctioneer's safety net to bid when it is called for.

Erm, what makes you think auctions for houses at start at £10? If they did, each property would take an awful lot of bidding and an awful long time to sell! By the time a couple of newly weds won an auction for a 2-bed terrace, they'd need a 5-bed detached to accomodate all their family! :rotfl:

If I was prepared to pay £200 for something and I got it for £200, I certainly wouldn't be happy to discover afterwards that it was actually the seller I was bidding against, who had artificially pushed the price up from the real market price.

Fortunately, shill bidding isn't something ambiguous and up for debate - it's illegal, and as one ebay seller found out last year, pleading ignorance is no defence.:T

RFW

porto_bello wrote: »

Fortunately, shill bidding isn't something ambiguous and up for debate - it's illegal, and as one ebay seller found out last year, pleading ignorance is no defence.:T

Most auction houses have in their conditions of sale "the auctioneer reserves the right to bid on behalf of the vendor" or something along those lines. I'd be surprised if any B&M auction house in this country had ever been found guilty of shill bidding, it's almost impossible to prove for a start.

RFW

porto_bello wrote: »

If I was prepared to pay £200 for something and I got it for £200, I certainly wouldn't be happy to discover afterwards that it was actually the seller I was bidding against, who had artificially pushed the price up from the real market price.

So if no one else had bid and the vendor had a reserve of £200, the only way to get there is for the auctioneer or their staff to bid, otherwise no sale and everyone loses.

soolin

Most of the auction houses I attend often run a bid against the book but then at the end say the item remains unsold as reserve is not met. I don't have a problem with that at all.

porto_bello

This week, I managed to win a B & M auction, but as I said above, shill bidding was a huge concern and appears to be easy to achieve, so I pursued my own approach, which in this case at least, delivered a result:

The item had an estimate of £200-£300. I was prepared to bid slightly over £200 (leaving room for the commission), but not much more. Had I phoned through an advance bid, even if there were no other bidders, I’ve a feeling that I still would have JUST won the item with my highest bid – whether it was £200 or £200,000!

My approach was to do absolutely nothing! I phoned up after the auction and upon discovering that the item had gone unsold, offered £150. Eventually, with the vendor contacted, the auctioneer got back to me and I got it for £180. [So, I got it for 10% off the lowest auction estimate].

Everyone’s a winner, since the vendor, auctioneer and buyer got something out of the transaction, but in not putting my faith in an auctioneer’s honesty, I did better than expected. :money:

Some might be of the opinion that all auctioneers above board and would never ‘create’ counter bidders to push up bids and their own fees. This short video is rather illuminating: :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NSnShgwG3U

RFW

porto_bello wrote: »

Some might be of the opinion that all auctioneers above board and would never ‘create’ counter bidders to push up bids and their own fees.

I could list you a few auction houses that set the rooms up so customers can't see where all the bids are coming from. I've been in and around the auction business all my life, they range from the straight down the line to the downright dishonest. Sadly, a lot of the business is set up for dishonesty, so it will always attract the odd rogue. As a customer I'd be more bothered about what I was buying rather than shill bidding (if I suspect shill bidding I can walk away). Many an auction house have been found guilty of passing off genuine goods as fake, I'd assume some have done it knowingly.