Valuer declined property

madmish00

I've been having a bit of an ongoing saga with a property that I have fallen in love with.

Some early digging revealed that it used to be a semi-detached and that it became a detached in 1988. There are suggestions that this may have been related to mining subsidence (word of mouth in the area but not from anyone who actually lived there at the time) A mining report shows no claims were made at this property, there are no mine shafts within 20m of the boundary and that any movement from past mining works should by now have ceased. A mining report cannot be obtained for 'next door' as it is no longer there.

Anywho the valuer went out yesterday and today I got a phonecall from the bank to say he has refused to accept it as security for a mortgage. There is no reasoning given other than 'history of subsidence'. He has not indicated that there is any evidence of current movement.

The report says the property 'may be reconsidered subject to a structural engineers report containing a detailed investigation of the structure which confirms stability or recommends repairs which are acceptable to the buidling society.' I have contacted a structural engineer and can get a report for £300 so not too steep but I am stressed to the eyeballs at the minute with it all.

I am surprised as it is currently mortgage and insured with Halifax and the vendor says that their solicitor looked into the history when they bought it but they had no problems getting either mortgage or insurance (2004). The valuer in fact told me that he had surveyed the property 20 years ago when his friend bought it (i.e only 3 years after the subsidence issues!)

I can't help but wonder if it is going to be more trouble than it is worth but it is the only property on the market in the area that we love and we plan to stay there for a good number of years.

So I suppose my question is 'would you buy a property with this history'? And if I do go ahead, is there anything I can in terms of information gathering that will reduce problems selling on in the furture.

jackomdj

Banks have a tendancy to change what they consider mortgageable (sp?). When I bought my last house I got a mortgage no problems. When I came to sell it the banks had a new test being done on all properties of a certain age in my area for concrete cancer...& guess what! So basically I had to sell to someone who did not need a mortgage & was willing to take it on (ended up selling to a structural engineer so he knew exactly what he was buying)

In short though I would not risk it as you may get it but not be able to sell it down the line.

maninthestreet

You have to ask - what happended to the other half of this semi????

madmish00

You have to ask - what happended to the other half of this semi????

There was apparently a large crack down the gable end of it.

But I would have thought (hoped!) given that this was nearly 25 years ago and there is no major cracking/sticking doors or windows/bulging etc to this property and the mining report says that all movement should have ceased (and provides an indemnity certificate to that effect) that things would be OK.

The land over the other side of the road apparently was the worst hit yet that land was built on in the early 1990's and there are approximately 15 houses worth approximately £350k (upper end of market up our way) built there. I'd be interested to know if they faced the same problems getting mortgages.

I think the main problem is the fact that the remedial work carried out to stabilise the land were done under a claim relating to the no-longer existing semi rather than the property I am looking to purchase so I can't seem to get any documentation as to what was actually done to confirm the land is now ok.

Suppose I'll have to see what the engineer has to say but with all the problems so far I do feel like everything is conspiring against me buying this house.

madmish00

Had a structural engineer go out and do a full survey. Sent the report over to the valuer yesterday but he is now saying it doesn't cover what he asked for!

The only thing it said on the declined report was 'There is an area of cracking under the front lounge window which cannot be fully investigated within the scope of a mortgage valuation' it went on to say 'the property may be reconsidered subject to a structural engineers report containing a detailed investigation of the structure which confirms stability or recommends repairs which are acceptable to the building society'

The structural engineers report states:

Internally to the front left hand corner we noted obvious cracking at ground floor level. We confirm that cracking to this area has resulted from a combination of
differential thermal movement between the differing materials used and an obvious poor bond provided to the junction of the same. By way of remedy we would simply recommend that the plaster be removed to expose the blockwork and appropriate works carried out to provide additional strength to the junction. It is likely that re-pointing with a firm mortar mix of (3:1) and fixing of expanded metal over the junction prior to replastering would prove sufficient.

The front left hand corner of the entrance porch could be seen to have suffered from an obvious settlement to the extent that cracking was visible to the brickwork directly adjacent to the front left hand corner. It is likely that the front corner of the entrance porch has shallower foundations than the rest of the adjacent structure and as such it appears that the front corner has been susceptible to an element of slight settlement which most likely occurred immediately following its original construction. At this stage considering
the location of the problem we would not recommend that any form of underpinning be considered as it is unlikely that movements will be on-going. We would recommend that the external cracks be re-pointed which will then act as a permanent monitor for the future.

Generally our inspection has shown that the main walls of the property are in a sound condition with no signs of historic or recent structural movement (with the exception of the minor issue to the entrance porch previously noted) and from this we would make the assumption that the foundations are adequate for the type of building and likely ground conditions.
Our inspection did not highlight any cracking, or lateral distortions to the external walls, consistent with a significant lack or inadequate lateral restraint and/or wall tie failure.

To me that 'confirms structural stability' as was required. What more can he possibly want. The mortgage advisor doesn't have a clue and has now suggested I get the engineer to ring the valuer.

kingstreet

madmish00 wrote: »

get the engineer to ring the valuer

Yep. They are going to have to sort this out between them.

DannyboyMidlands

How the hell does that confirm structural stability? If I was the bank I would want trial holes dug, foundations investigated and all sorts. The engineer doesn't have x-ray vision and has clearly done what you have asked them but that is not thorough enough for the bank. Fair enough.

The report is full of terms such as "It is likely" "it appears" "which most likely" "it is unlikely" "we would make the assumption that". I wouldn't lend anybody a couple of hundred grand on the basis of that either.

madmish00

How the hell does that confirm structural stability? If I was the bank I would want trial holes dug, foundations investigated and all sorts. The engineer doesn't have x-ray vision and has clearly done what you have asked them but that is not thorough enough for the bank. Fair enough.

Not fair enough! If they wanted trial holes dug etc then they should have said what they wanted doing. The fact is that the valuer asked for an engineers report because of the cracking under the lounge window which has been confirmed to be thermal movement. At no point did he say that he wanted exploratory work doing on the foundations. I read out what it said to the engineer and he said 'that is a standard paragraph we deal with several of these every week' and when I spoke to him after he had done the survey said he didn't think that there would be any problems with the bank once they had his report!

Am I supposed to just keep guessing what they want?

ILW

In the end it is the banks money and if they do not want to lend, they are not going to.

DannyboyMidlands

It does sound completely fair enough I'm afraid. The bank asked for a "report containing a detailed investigation of the structure" whereas it sounds like a bloke (albeit a structural engineer) has just been round and had a look. That is not a detailed investigation. A detailed investigation would cost more than 300 quid and would involve removal of fixtures and fittings and the digging of trial holes in order to gain access to and describe the structure in detail. Not guesswork such as "It is likely that .......blah blah blah".

Anyway, they don't sound keen to lend on it so I'd let it go and find somewhere else.

kingstreet

A structural engineer won't dig trial holes unless he is specifically requested to do so as it would require the vendor's permission and a crew to dig them.

The only way this is going to be sorted out is by direct communication between the surveyor and the structural engineer.