Can a landlord remove all materials, tools etc from workshop without notice?

acbleeds

Hi everyone.

My father went to his workshop for the first time in about 2 weeks that he rents to find that his padlock had been removed and replaced by another one. Looking in, all his possessions had also been removed. He is 4 months in arrears with the rent (£260 per month). The landlord has not sent any notice at all that he was intending doing this, nor tried to contact my father in any way, phone, letter, email etc (I know this because since my mother developed cancer earlier last year, he has not worked much, hence barely earnt money, sold their house and moved in with me).

He phoned the landlord this evening to find out what was going on, where he found it difficult to have a proper conversation with him as he was intent on just shouting down the phone that he wanted his money or he'll sell/bin everything. My father did however manage to assertain that he has not yet sold the items and has placed them in one of the neighbouring workshops under his own 'lock and key'.

The possessions he has taken would cost approximately £15k - £25k to replace. There are also many items that were in there that were not his, for example because he had space left, I have a number of my own personal items stored there that I don't have space for at home currently, as well as possessions of other family members (including his wife, my mother's, which have nothing to do with the business either but are personal) and a few items belonging to his customers.

Is the landlord entitled to do this? If so, should he not have followed some procedure first and as a minimum surely given written notification of his intent to do so? If he is not allowed to do this, what course of action can we take? Are there legal issues here or is it all technically 'civil'?

This has really annoyed us because not only this, but when my parents first moved in with me, they rented a second, smaller unit from this man to store more of their items that wouldn't initially fit at mine or into the original unit. Many of these items became water damaged because this unit leaked when there was rain. He was told about this the first time they noticed the leak, quite early on and were told it would be sorted. When they visited that unit again some months later, nothing had been done and there was a lot of damage to boxes and their contents. His website says he ensures all units are kept 'secure and dry'!! On the couple of ocassions they have tried to get something done about this or some kind of compensation he had been dismissive of it. My parents finally managed to empty that unit about 9 months ago by using a relavtive's garage instead, so nothing else became damaged.

Many thanks in anticipation of some helpful advice!

chalkie99

Did he actually inform the Landlord that he had changed his address and did it not occur to him that if he had not paid rent for 4 months then some consequences were likely?

I cannot see that the Landlord would just repossess the property without first trying to collect unpaid rent so there does seem to be a little more to this than stated.

acbleeds

Nope, he was fully aware of where my father now lives (he's been here with me since december 09), the landlord also has his contact numbers and email etc etc. In the past when he was a couple of months behind with the rent, the guy just put a note under the door of the workshop asking my father to contact him (which he did), but absolutely nothing on this ocassion. And this guy does not particularly give me the impression he does everything the way it should be done, just seems to be the type that 'makes it up as he goes' a bit i think, but I'm pretty sure on this ocassion he has significantly overstepped the mark. And yes of course I understand having not paid rent for 4 months the guy would probably be chasing for it, but that's the point, he hadn't so don't see how he can do this without prior notice and I also assume some kind of due process???

paddyrg

So your father owes 4 months rent, the creditor is holding goods to get his attention - it appears to have worked. Pay what you owe, get your stuff back, walk away. Unless you are disputing a 4 month debt?

acbleeds

The 'creditor' has broken in to his workshop, taken everything worth a total over £15k to 'get his attention' for a debt of £1040, without informing him of any intent to do so.... Sorry but that doesn't sound acceptable to me. Everything I have read on solicitors' websites suggest various things, but all seem to be along the same sentiment that he has no right to do this and has left himself open to serious damage claims. I am trying to find out my father's exact position so I can put this to the landlord and proceed.

I would highly appreciate some small advice from someone with experience in commercial leasing law. Many thanks

tomitma

It will save you a lot of time and trouble if you just pay what you owe. Then sell the stuff, as it is obvious that you will have no where to keep it.

chalkie99

Well, sorry to say but it is now sounding as though you want to join the "compensation culture" to get damages for your father NOT paying his rent and not attempting to even contact the Landlord to explain why the rent was not being paid as agreed.

However, I am not sure of the legal niceties here so would suggest you could place a request for advice in the legal section at http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk where some people conversant with leases might be able to tell you the position.

acbleeds

Thanks for the link chalkie99, will take a look. And no it's not about being part of the 'compensation culture', this just seems significantly wrong. I have a golf club that owes me about £350 for work carried out, which is over a month overdue. Should I just go into their shop and take all their stock until they pay me? Obviously not, I have to go through a process of recovery. That's my point, surely there should be procedure? And from what I can tell, there should have been. And Tomitma... These are his tools and materials for working, what a stupid suggestion to say 'sell the stuff', I know forums are about people's opinions as well as trying to find facts, but be sensible

paulwf

acbleeds wrote: »

The 'creditor' has broken in to his workshop, taken everything worth a total over £15k to 'get his attention' for a debt of £1040, without informing him of any intent to do so.... Sorry but that doesn't sound acceptable to me. Everything I have read on solicitors' websites suggest various things, but all seem to be along the same sentiment that he has no right to do this and has left himself open to serious damage claims. I am trying to find out my father's exact position so I can put this to the landlord and proceed.

I would highly appreciate some small advice from someone with experience in commercial leasing law. Many thanks

We have to put this in the "real world" context i.e. if either side gets solicitors involved they'll charge over £200 an hour which will soon dwarf the size of the debt.

Lets be honest, this isn't the first time payment has been late and 4 months with no sign of payment forthcoming (from what I can tell from the posts the situation is unlikely to improve any time soon) is more than just an invoice that's gone over 30 days. In some ways this course of action is better than a CCJ being taken out or the baliffs being called in.

Try and group together to get the debt payed, move out of the unit and move on would be my advice.

cotleigh

Most commercial premises leases (check yours) do allow the landlord, or bailiffs appointed by him, to enter and end the lease if the rent is much overdue.

They usually just have to put up a notice saying that under the terms of the lease they have "peacably entered" the premises and terminated the lease.

Your father must have realised that not paying the agreed rent for months was going to upset the landlord, surely?

acbleeds

Paulwf, part of the problem has been getting hold of this guy to pay him anyway. He's seen my father (and myself) up at the workshop on numerous ocassions during this period but has never said a word about it. Plus like I said, there are numerous possessions belonging to other people in there (including a sofa being stored for his brother-in-law, a police inspector). I would pay the balance in full myself if it had ever been asked for to prevent any situation in the first place if I'd had known there was this possibility. As it was, I was allowing my father to get back on his feet after my mother's critical illness and pay it himself over the next month or two.

Cotleigh, that's the problem, he hasn't given any notice, put any notices up or anything.