LL told by baliff that they will force entry to collect debt from tenant!

greendale9061

Hey Guys,

Need help and advice from Ex Baliffs, Judges, Solictors etc

I work for a Property company who owns a small residential block of flats in M/C city Centre. I am the landlord of this block and has found out one of my tenants (who has done a bunk and is sub letting!!!) has unpaid council tax for the two years he's been there.


As the landlord I have a Fixed Term Contract with this guy untill August 2011, and I haven't been able to get hold of him Since Janaury 2011 to do a routine inspection. This week I was going to start a 'Notice of possesion' S21 .

Yesterday while I was inspecting another flat, I saw two offical people wandering round the building, which I asked if I could help.

These people asked about my tenant, as I assumed they were the Census People, I replied I think he may have done a bunk as not heard from him in 3 months, but his rent is still paid on time. Then I found out they were baliffs, and quickly showed there ID.

I accompanied the Ballifs to the door, to see if anyone was living there, and found '4 new people' which all had fraudulent contracts with my tenant dating from September 2010.

The baliffs did a levy of goods to the value the debt, which included most of the landlords property (fully furnished flat). I told the baliffs repeatly that this furniture belongs to the Landlord/company and it can not be removed, as I can provide proof on the signed inventorys and can have a look in the other flats, as all the same furniture.

His reply was, I need to give him receipts and purchase invoices for all items before 12 noon this afternoon or he would remove it (most items are over 8 years old!). He then went on to say If I attempt to remove these items or the tenant did not pay the debt, that he will personally issue a warrant for my arrest and will make me bankcrupt?? I replied to him this was 'NOT LAWFUL' as only Police can issue a warrant for my arrest if I commited an offence, which I clearly haven't? This is when he turned more agressive and nasty towards me.

He also told me if the debt is not settled, he will Force entry by any means into the buliding (through 2 secure communal doors and the Apartment door) and will change the locks, as he does not need permission from the building/land owner to do this.

Basically I need to know where I stand as a Landlord?

It was unfortuante I was there yesterday, but I was treated just as much as a victim as the illegal tenants.

Points I would like to Clarify:-

1) Can they force entry without owners permission and change the locks?
2) Can they remove furniture belonging to the landlord?
3) Can I make a claim for damages if they mark/scuff my recently painted walls?
4) Can I make a complaint to the Authorising Agent?

NOTE: This guy was from Marston, acting on behalf of M/C city Council. I've been told these guys are very heavy handed and like to use bullt tactics.

HELP :-(

Cissi

greendale9061 wrote: »

Hey Guys,

Need help and advice from Ex Baliffs, Judges, Solictors etc

I work for a Property company who owns a small residential block of flats in M/C city Centre. I am the landlord of this block and has found out one of my tenants (who has done a bunk and is sub letting!!!) has unpaid council tax for the two years he's been there.

I'm confused - are you the Landlord or do you work for the Landlord? How can you be the LL if you work for the company that owns the property? Is it your own company (but then, why state that you "work for" them)?

People will be able to help you better if they have the correct facts...

greendale9061

I can clarify, I am the Landlord, as the Property Company is family owned. There is 3 people involved in the business (Two owners and me).

Thanks :-)

HappyMJ

Did you get permission from the tenant to enter the property? I think you'll find that is an offence if you hadn't. As you say the tenant is paying on time so you have no right to enter the property especially with bailiffs who now have walking possesion agreement. They now can enter at any time by any means including breaking in to take what they believe to be the tenants possesions. If they break locks they'll change them. If they cause minor damage then they won't claim liability will they. Good luck.. Don't let people into your tenants flat in future and especially not bailiffs.

greendale9061

I can clarify that I did not give permision or assit with the opening of the tenants door to let the baliffs in. I was talking to them on the other side of the corridor, and was not at the door when they were knocking. One of the tenants let them in. Once I saw them enter the flat, I went back to doing my inspections. The baliffs came to find me after, to ask me some questions and to see the current tenancy agreement. It was in the reception area that I told him about the Landlord Furniture and he then threatened me with the warrant.

Sorry for not pointing out the finner details.

Thanks

poppy10_2

greendale9061 wrote: »

I accompanied the Ballifs to the door

Why did you do that? You shouldn't have let them anywhere near the flat.

He then went on to say If I attempt to remove these items or the tenant did not pay the debt, that he will personally issue a warrant for my arrest and will make me bankcrupt??

That's nonsense. Even if the debt was yours, you'd be entitled to move any of your possessions out of the flat that you like. And if the bailiff knowingly seized items they knew were not owned by the debtor, then this would be classed as illegal distress. A bailiff has no power to issue an arrest warrant or make you bankrupt. And (unless they are from the HMRC) they have no right to force entry into a property.
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex345_web_0809.pdf

You'll get a better response posting on the Debt-free Wannabe board, they have better experience dealing with chancer bailiffs

clutton_2

contact the council and explain the situation re your tenants council tax.... can you get a copy of the new sub-letters agreement ? this will validate what you discovered.

TEll them about the Bailiffs behaviour and attitude.

Did the bailiffs verify your identity ? If they did not they could well have assumed you were the real tenant pretending to be the LL =- happens.

N79

greendale9061 wrote: »

Points I would like to Clarify:-

1) Can they force entry without owners permission and change the locks?
2) Can they remove furniture belonging to the landlord?
3) Can I make a claim for damages if they mark/scuff my recently painted walls?
4) Can I make a complaint to the Authorising Agent?

NOTE: This guy was from Marston, acting on behalf of M/C city Council. I've been told these guys are very heavy handed and like to use bullt tactics.

HELP :-(

1) Probably - they can use reasonable force to gain access if they are enforcing a court order that allows them to do this or if they are using a statutory power that allow them to do this.

2) Not really, but obviously they need to be informed of who it belongs to. Even if they remove the goods you will have a period of time to reclaim your goods before they are disposed of. You should write to the court, council and bailiffs today informing then that your goods are present in the property and provide them with the inventory so that they can identify your goods. If they still take them then you will need to go to court to get your costs back.

3) Not if they are using a relevant power granting them the right to use reasonable force. That said, they do have a duty of care but for a scuff mark I doubt it is worth pursuing.

4) Of course. Include then in your letter for part 2.

RAS

Are you a ltd company or a partnership?

Anyway, the bailiff is lying. Unfortunately this is the sort for illegal crap that spout at all sorts of people.

The bailiff wanted to get in the house to levy/get a Walking Possession Order as this allows them to charge lots of nice extra fees. Also that do not care who pays, as long as someone does.

Which load of muppets was this (you might by the way be better on the DFW fiorum where there is more experience of bailiffs) ?

Find out who your local councillor(s) is/are. Send them the report you posted above and ask that they stop the bailiff action.

Did you get either a copy of the levy/WPO or the names of the bailiffs?

They cannot take your company's goods to pay his debts. Assuming that you have an inventory, all you need to do legally is make a statuatory declaration listing al the furniture and fittings and get this witnessed by your solicitor - cost about £5-10.

societys_child

""NOTE: This guy was from Marston, acting on behalf of M/C city Council. I've been told these guys are very heavy handed and like to use bullt tactics.""

My first thought:
If someone told me they were a bailiff and showed me his ID, I'm not sure what I'd be looking for . . . was he really a bailiff or a pretend one . . ie a scummy debt collector?

I thought bailiffs worked for the courts?

Careful_with_that_Axe

Am I correct in thinking that you do not HAVE to sign a Walking Possession Order?