Tied House: Have to leave because of new job, Advice please?

VeLoCiTY

I'll try to keep this short, but I want to give as many details as possible..

My partner works while I stay at home with our two young chilren under 5. We currently live in a house which is tied with his job. As this house was more of a goodwill gesture by his employer, no lease was ever drawn up, it was more of a casual arrangement.

Long story short, his employer has fallen on hard times, and since Christmas my partner has had infrequent wage payments, the odd £200 in form of a cheque as and when his employer can afford it. This had caused many problems with Direct Debits in January, but we soon sorted ourselves out and got on top of things again. As things are, his wages are still unreliable.

He has been offered a job with a company that he has always wanted to work for, this job has been offered 3 times now. The first two times he turned the job down because a) we would have nowhere to live, and b) because he had faith that everything would come right in the end with his current employer.

There seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel with his current employer, and with money getting tighter by the day, we both feel in order to feed our family and to afford our monthly payments he has no alternative but to accept this new job. It's very bitter sweet, he has the job he always wanted but that then poses a new set of problems. As previously mentioned, we have a tied house. Last month I contacted our local council to request some application forms, which they sent out. I returned them promptly, to which they then said they needed proof of this new job. We obtained a written confirmation of this and forwarded a copy to the council. Today, after several failed attempts at contacting the correct housing representative, she phoned me asking about our situation. I told her absolutely everything, every last detail. She was completely unmoved by it all, while I didn't expect sympathy as such, a simple aknowledgement of understanding would have helped. She plainly told me that until we have a leaving date there is nothing they can do to help us.

My partner begins his new job on 2nd May, but he has been dubious of handing his notice in to his current employer incase he decides to be spiteful and tell him that there's no need to serve his notice and that we are to move out immediately. If it were just my partner and I, then that would have been fine, we would manage. But I am worried more for our childrens' sake. The thought of us having nowhere to go keeps me awake at night, I simply don't know what to do.

He starts on 2nd May, and ideally we would like to have a place to move into by then, but without informing his employer of this, the council are unwilling to help us. We can not afford to privately rent as houses are in the region of £650 for a 2 bedroom house. Council housing or other connected housing associations are our only hope really as they are more within our price range.

The lady who spoke to me today wishes to meet with us next Thursday to assess our 'potential homlessness'. Of course I agreed to this meeting, but judging by our telephone conversation, I am not holding out much hope. Her only advice to me was to get in touch with letting agencies. (which are all out of our price range, and also have nothing available in our area) She wants to assess whether or not we are in priority need, and if we have intentionally made ourselves homeless. While technically yes, we are intentionally homeless in a way by taking this new job, we have no other choice in our opinion as we can not carry on surving off occassional wage cheques when his current employer feels he can pay them.

If anyone has ever been in a similar position, or has some advice for our situation, or possibly even a little bit of advice about anything that could be helpful for our upcoming meeting next week, I would be eternally grateful to you. Many thanks for taking the time to read

mutter

The housing officer is doing exactly the right thing.

I don't know where you live, but in places where the number of council or housing association properties are desperately low, the council is rarely able to offer accommodation to people who haven't got at least notice to quit.

At the meeting you may be offered help with a deposit to go into a private rental if you can find anything suitable.
Otherwise, sit tight, because your landlord can't kick you out immediately, spiteful or not.
In the worst case scenario, he'd have to go through the courts to evict you.

Once you've been assessed and if the council decide you are a priority, you may still have to wait to be evicted - because until that point, you still have somewhere to live.

Don't be too hard on the housing officer - in areas where public housing stock is low, they have a horrendous job and see people in dreadful situations day in, day out, and they have to act professionally and objectively to make sure that the precious few properties are allocated to the worst cases.

G_M

I'm afraid you have no rights where you are if the property is tied to the job. You leave the job, you lose the property.

You also have no automatic right to council housing. This is, rightly, reserved for those in great need. One criteria councils use is to assess whether applicants have 'made themselves intentionally homeless', and I suspect that by resigning (your choice, therefore an intentional act) you may fall foul of this rule. Had you chosen to remain in the current job, albeit with an uncertain future, you would not be homeless.

Even if you ARE defined as homeless, and qualify for housing, don't expect a family home. There are none. They were all sold off by Maggie Thatcher (OK, not ALL). Bed and Breakfast is a likely first step for an indeterminate period.

I would be talking to the new employer about either housing, or at least help towards getting a private rental. Would the employer fund the deposit? The first X months rent? Act as guarantor?

Start negotiating as this emplyer clearly wants your partner, and the time to negotiate terms like this is before taking up the post.

Jowo_2

VeLoCiTY wrote: »

... We can not afford to privately rent as houses are in the region of £650 for a 2 bedroom house. Council housing or other connected housing associations are our only hope really as they are more within our price range.

Many people in employment are entitled to Local Housing Allowance (housing benefit) which will make private rents much more affordable.

Find out the maximum LHA rate for your size/make-up of household on the LHA Direct Website in your area and then put the details into the Turn2us online benefit calculator which will identify if you are entitled to any LHA, tax credits, council tax rebate, etc.

Many councils operate deposit guarantee schemes for those in housing need/low incomes. See if yours operates one.

The Shelter website has excellent information on how the council will treat your homelessness application, the steps they take and how it is processed, their obligations. This includes a good definition of what intentional homelessness is and this includes leaving accommodation when the tenant didn't have to.

As stated before, the supply of social housing is low and demand is very high. Councils can't accommodate every tenant who has been served notice by their landlord or move to take up a job.

Having said that, councils are also notorious for trying to escape their statutory obligations to deal with the homeless - Shelter will advise you if the council are not acting as they should. Give them a call and they will be able to advise you of your rights and the council's responsibilities.

Members on the Employment Forum may be able to tell you how to deal with any breach of his employment rights.

VeLoCiTY

Thank so kindly to all that have offered their advice! I have taken on board everything you said, and I know you're right. I'm not trying to be hard on the lady, I'm just more frustrated than anything.. This is a completely new concept to us, we've never asked for help before, we've always been the ones to help those in need. To be on the opposite side is very humbling, and also very worrying. I know that we won't be left out in the cold, I've read the councils' website information so many times that I could probably recite it word for word, lol. It does say that in Scotland (where we are) that the local council has a legal obligation to provide temporary homeless accomodation, and should things come to this obviously I will accept anything, even a one bed flat for the 4 of us is better than outside.

I'm not sure where I stand on the following point, probably nowhere, but in one of the villages we selected for moving to, there are two houses directly opposite my partners mothers' house which have been empty for over 6 weeks, with no sign of anybody having even visited them. I think the part that is bothering me is that these houses have been empty for some time, yet they are lying there without any work being carried out or people moving into them

Litterally 10 minutes ago, the postie delivered our mail and there was a letter from the council advising that we will be considered for 2 and 3 bedroom houses available in our selected villages, one of those being where these two houses are empty.

The other point I forgot to make last night was this: My 4 year old son (5 next week) is due to start school in August, however for the past 9 months he has been unable to attend nursery as we live 2 miles from our local school. The council houses are situated right by the school, so obviously within walking distance. My 2 year old daughter (3 in June) is due to start nursery in August as well, but his is also going to be impossible living where we are now (unlikely) I know legally I have to send my child to school (and quite rightly so) but how can I do that when the school is outwith our reach? We tried a couple of times walking there, but with my daughter it takes an hour to walk there, and an hour to walk back. Then to pick my son up an hour later and another hour to walk back, that makes 8 miles for my two year old to walk in 4 hours, and add in an extra trip once he starts school and finishes later in the day. I know that probably sounds very petty, but with everything feeling as though it's piling on top of me, all the little details don't feel quite so miniscule anymore, they all feel very much a part of the big picture

mutter

Hi again,
It's brilliant news that the council have decided that you fit the criteria for public housing - and it's also good to see that you're in Scotland, which I believe is in a relatively good position as far as public housing is concerned (I stand to be corrected, but as I live within striking distance of London anywhere is in a better position than here!).

Don't be afraid to email your housing officer or pick up the phone and ask what the current situation is regarding the two houses you mention, and to point out the difficulties of getting your kids to school and nursely - it's all helpful.

We were in a not so different position 12 years ago, and had to stay in our private rented accommodation while the landlord went through the process of having us evicted - a horrible situation - and we didn't know where we were going to go until 4 days before the baliffs were due.
The council put us in a tiny flat as it was all they had available in the area, but after six months we got a decent 3 bed house, so it worked out ok in the end, but I know how hard it is while you're going through the process.

neverdespairgirl

You should see an employment lawyer - there are various DTI schemes in relation to unpaid wages. See your local CAB or law centre.

perthperson

hi, just to say that, in Scotland at least, you should not be considered intentionally homeless because you have had to leave tied accommodation, even if it's because it's because you have given up your job.

If you have children you will pass the 'priority need" test.

The person at the Council was right in that the legislation says that you can make a homeless application if you are actually homeless or you are threatened with homelessness in the next 2 months.

With tied accommodation your employer can ask you to leave at short notice. However he cannot legally force you to leave without a court order. However the Council should not make you stay and force you to get to the stage of him taking you to court. They could however talk to the employer and negotiate you staying on for a little time until something else -temporary or permanent- can be arranged.

If they accept you as threatened with homelessness the Council will have a duty to offer you temporary accommodation if they can't come up with a suitable offer of permanent housing in time. You might have a limited choice of where the temporary accommodation is however, depends on the situation in your area.

Also do as said above and check out if you are entitled to any Local Housing Allowance and also any other benefits or tax credits you might be entitled to. Your Council may have a Welfare Rights Team or you could contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau.

Also find out from the Council if there are any other Housing Associations you should be applying to (in some areas they are included in the Council application, in others you have to make separate applications) As well as taking your application and assessing it the Council has a duty to offer you advice and assistance on all the possibilities for you including advice on private renting.

Depending on the area you are in there may be a long waiting list for houses or you may get housed really quickly. Unfortunately houses lying empty are usually already allocated to someone and probably waiting for repairs or there's some other reason no one has moved in yet but it might be different where you stay. It wouldn't hurt to ask the person at the Council if she can find out if they really are unallocated.

It would be a really good idea to call Shelter Scotland for some further advice about your housing situation, they're the experts on housing law and could answer any questions you've got before you go to see the Council. It's a complicated area and you can't be expected to know much about it if you haven't been in that situation before.

Hope everything gets sorted out for you soon.

VeLoCiTY

mutter wrote: »

Hi again,
It's brilliant news that the council have decided that you fit the criteria for public housing - and it's also good to see that you're in Scotland, which I believe is in a relatively good position as far as public housing is concerned (I stand to be corrected, but as I live within striking distance of London anywhere is in a better position than here!).

Don't be afraid to email your housing officer or pick up the phone and ask what the current situation is regarding the two houses you mention, and to point out the difficulties of getting your kids to school and nursely - it's all helpful.

We were in a not so different position 12 years ago, and had to stay in our private rented accommodation while the landlord went through the process of having us evicted - a horrible situation - and we didn't know where we were going to go until 4 days before the baliffs were due.
The council put us in a tiny flat as it was all they had available in the area, but after six months we got a decent 3 bed house, so it worked out ok in the end, but I know how hard it is while you're going through the process.

Hi mutter!

Yes, from what I've read they have slightly different legislations in Scotland where it say they are legally obliged to provide temporary accomodation, which is a start for sure! I don't want to sound like an 'I know what I'm entitled to, so give me it NOW' kind of person, although I can type my situation up here, in person I'm very timid and find it hard to speak up. I know nobody else is going to sort this for me and I have to do it myself for our family, it's just a real struggle when some of the ladies can be really stern and unwaivering, I tend to falter a little

I'm sure everything will come right in the end, it's just the uncertainty that's quite unnerving. I will deffinately ask about the houses that are currently unoccupied when I meet with her on Thursday, maybe there are valid reasons for them being empty I just get tired of seeing them, but yet when I am in a situation where I need one, I can't have one. I'm glad to hear things came right for you in the end, I'm sure you more than anyone will understand how we are feeling, so thank you for sharing that with me as I now feel a little more optimistic :j

Hi perthperson

I think the same way, I'm hoping that we won't be classed as intentionally homeless too, because we really feel that there are not many options left. 4 months with very few small payments to cover bills and food has been a nightmare

I actually spoke to Shelter yesterday, they were absolutely fantastic, so friendly and had some good advice. I was quite nervous phoning but eventually I managed to explain everything, and the lady from Shelter looked into our situation and found that tied accomodation with no lease is classed as a 'Service Tennancy' whereby our LL only has to give us 7 days notice to move, and this can also be verbal. I can actually see this happening, as my partner is the main source of income for his business, so news that he's leaving isn't going to go down well at all.

Anyway, the lady at Shelter agreed that we didn't really have any other choice and she then phoned the lady from the council to make sure she was clear on all the facts. When the Shelter lady spoke to her, the council lady kind of changed her tune a little apparently, that the council lady agreed that it was something that had to be done, and that everything will be looked into in more detail next Thursday. Another step in the right direction, as when I originally spoke to her she hadn't even read our forms, at least by yesterday afternoon she had grasped what I had originally tried (and failed) to explain myself

Yesterday I tried the other 2 HA's in this area, they are both connected with the council and they share the same 'Housing Register' but again, they said that I would have to complete the homeless application next Thursday before they can help. I can't wait until next Thursday, not because I expect them to offer us something on the spot, obviously they won't.. but it will just be nice to see more clearly and know where we stand with things a little bit more.

Once again, I just want to thank each of you who have taken the time to reply to my messages. Your advice has been invaluable, and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't have even thought of phoning Shelter for advice had it not been recommended on here. I really feel Shelter are a great source of advice, because of course occassionally the council will try to pull the wool over your eyes slightly (Shelter lady's words) but had she not informed me of certain aspects yesterday, I would have still been oblivious. Thank you all so much :beer: