Council tax in shared flat?

gozaimasu

CIS wrote: »

Yes - with very few exceptions the same rules apply for council tax as in E&W. This should be the latest ammendment to the wording of the relevant regs - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2003/137/regulation/2/made

That's interesting to know. I rented a property in Scotland as a student and the Council kept harassing us for money even though we were exempt. The landlord obviously passed our names on direct to the Council, but you are telling me that the landlord was liable to pay it, so why was the landlord not paying it themselves if they are liable?. Hmmm.

00ec25

gozaimasu wrote: »

That's interesting to know. I rented a property in Scotland as a student and the Council kept harassing us for money even though we were exempt. The landlord obviously passed our names on direct to the Council, but you are telling me that the landlord was liable to pay it, so why was the landlord not paying it themselves if they are liable?. Hmmm.

you have misunderstood

it is true your LL was liable becuase the LL is always liable for an HMO, however, being tax liable is not the same as due to pay tax

if the property was occupied 100% by students, which is what you seem to imply then, provided you had given your exemption certs to the council (or your LL did it on your behalf) then the LL was liable but had nothing due to pay as the occupoants were 100% exempt

the LL acted correctly by passing on your names so the council could match the occupants to the exemtption certs and confirm for themselves there was no one who was not exempt and therefore nothing was due

PoppyHoppy

The council have recently wrote to me telling me they are classing the house I rent out as a 4 bed share as a HMO. I started renting it out in 2007 and sought the councils advice re: c/tax. They asked what the situation is - 4 housemates, all sep AST's, all paying equal share of their bills, shared facilities, locks on doors. The council said they would bill the tenants. So I've operated on that basis since, until a new girl moved in, the others are currently students, so she was applying for Single Persons Discount and this all came up.
Is their space for some kind of interpretation of the regs?
They are now asking for all the tenants names from 2009 and looking at what's owed. How can they apply charges retrospectively when they've only just decided it's a HMO? Anyhow, there's no arrears as I've always checked it's been paid - so are they going to refund the tenants and charge me?
I'm also confused where I stand in terms of the AST's. This is a basic lawpack AST which was approved by the landlord licensing team. In the AST it states that the tenant is liable for council tax. So how can it be that the Council Tax regs contradict basic Houseshare AST's?
Oh I'm so confused. Any advice or guidance would be gratefully received. I only rent this house out as I couldn't afford to live in it anymore, I'm not a big property tycoon, I'm just trying to cover my mortgage.

00ec25

PoppyHoppy wrote: »

So how can it be that the Council Tax regs contradict basic Houseshare AST's?

sadly for you they can contradict very easily because you have not understood the situation and the licensing team made a mistake or were not givemn full info. Your description of the properly is almost a perfect dictionary definition of an HMO.

a property which is classed as an HMO means the liability for CT ALWAYS but ALWAYS lies with the LL, it is never with the tenants.
The LL does of course build the CT cost into their rent charge but the liability is theirs and not the tenants

what they are seeking to do is to establish exactly who was in the house and for what period, so as to confirm that the only occupants prior to your latest one were all exempt students. Sadly for you if they find there were non students in the property and they did not pay CT then for that period they will bill you as you are liable

Please note that if your rental periods were not continuous (eg you let the students finish in July and the next lot start in sept) then you will be liable for that gap period, just like any LL who has a void is liable

Going forward you are liable for the current tenant, however, please note that you can claim SPD on the basis that they are the only non student. It will be you who has to pay the CT so you'll need to recover the cost from your tenant and may therefore have to change the wording of your agreement since, as currently written, it is wrong.

CIS

I agree with 00ec25, the property sounds like a textbook HMO and , although you may have agreements that state the tenants should pay the council tax you cannot override couuncil tax legislation (council tax (liability for owners) regulation 1992, as amended).

as you seem to imply there are no arrears owed, then no the council will not refund the tenants and charge you

The council will have no choice but to refund the tenants if they make the decision that they are not liable. The council will have no powers to retain the money as they are then effectively charging them for when there is no council tax liability for them. On several occasions I have had to refund tenants and backdate charges for landlords because it has been found that the landlord is liable (often 2-3 years worth of charge).

PoppyHoppy

Thanks so much for your input CIS and OOec25. I'm absolutely devastated by this. I went on the council's advice - they told me the tenant should pay if they are paying the other bills, this is there error. Now they've informed me accurately, I am happily paying the council tax. No other body would get away with providing miscommunication in this way.

CIS

Unfortunately the law make no allowances for any form of incorrect advice however you should raise the issue with the council and ask for a longer term re-payment plan. I've personally seen similar cases where we've given 2 to 3 years for re-payment.