AV referendum

AndyGuil

Mallotum_X wrote: »

I guess the point is how do you decide who has won.

If a candidate gets the most votes at say 30% of the vote then some would say that isnt the same as winning as 70% did not support them.

This way some would argue is fairer as at least 50% of the voters must in some way support the winning candidate.

All depends on your view of fair...

Plenty of decisions are made by people elimiating the losing item, whether thats a candidate or issue, then re-voting. This attempts to do the same thing, trying to find a consensus.

AV does not require 50% of the vote. It is not a proportional voting system and causes the candidate that everyone doesn't like the least to win.

Mallotum_X

AndyGuil wrote: »

AV does not require 50% of the vote. It is note a proportional voting system and causes the candidate that everyone doesn't like the least to win.

Or alternatively the candidate acceptable to a majority wins?

As I said before depends on your view point.

FPTP doesnt and never has represented the will of the people as a disproportinate number of our MP's are Labour and Tory, AV should give a more representative result, PR would reflect the make up of votes by the country as a whole.

AndyGuil

Mallotum_X wrote: »

Or alternatively the candidate acceptable to a majority wins?

As I said before depends on your view point.

FPTP doesnt and never has represented the will of the people as a disproportinate number of our MP's are Labour and Tory, AV should give a more representative result, PR would reflect the make up of votes by the country as a whole.

AV will wipe out all parties apart from Conservative, Labour and Lib dems as others never win with a major amount of the vote. For example Brighton will probably not be Green anymore. Other parties won't get a look in. If anything AV will make areas more marginal between two parties, if not in the first AV election but the second where it has become apparent which parties are left as the final two standing. It is just a tool to turn all Conservative/Lib Dem and Labour/Lib Dem marginals into Lib Dem seats. Not necessarily the right way forward for the country.

MsHoarder

My decision making process for the last election under FPTP:

1. Rank the candidates (in my head)
2. Try to work out which candidates stood a chance of winning
3. Vote for my second choice as first choice didn't look to be in the running

And under AV:

1. Rank the candidates (in my head)
2. Rank the candidates on the ballot paper.

If you don't support a specific party in a tribal fashion, then this system allows parties to be compared purely on the merit of their history/manifesto, not how likely they are to win that seat.

If you do support one party blindly (and you aren't a member and therefore involved in policy decisions) then you are part of the problem with our democratic process.

Mallotum_X

AndyGuil wrote: »

AV will wipe out all parties apart from Conservative, Labour and Lib dems as others never win with a major amount of the vote. For example Brighton will probably not be Green anymore. Other parties won't get a look in. If anything AV will make areas more marginal between two parties, if not in the first AV election but the second where it has become apparent which parties are left as the final two standing. It is just a tool to turn all Conservative/Lib Dem and Labour/Lib Dem marginals into Lib Dem seats. Not necessarily the right way forward for the country.

The others rarely win anything anyway, so not sure how AV is wiping them out?

The greens in Brighton may have been not much more than a blip, Brighton Pavilion had been Tory from 1950 to 97, then Labour. But as second place in 2010 was Labour, its unlikey the tory voters would have voted for Labour as a second choice, so there is a a reasonable chance the Greens may have still won.

chewmylegoff

Mallotum_X wrote: »

The others rarely win anything anyway, so not sure how AV is wiping them out?

The greens in Brighton may have been not much more than a blip, Brighton Pavilion had been Tory from 1950 to 97, then Labour. But as second place in 2010 was Labour, its unlikey the tory voters would have voted for Labour as a second choice, so there is a a reasonable chance the Greens may have still won.

plus based on their sandal wearing yokel stereotype, anyone voting lib dem would have green as their second choice.

ninky_2

in light of recent events i hate the lib dems so much i feel like voting against AV as they are likely to be the biggest beneficiaries of this.

rather childish probably but there we go.:p

MsHoarder

ninky wrote: »

in light of recent events i hate the lib dems so much i feel like voting against AV as they are likely to be the biggest beneficiaries of this.

rather childish probably but there we go.:p

Unlikely. Any party which has hacked off over 50% of the voters will have a hard time winning under AV.

ninky_2

MsHoarder wrote: »

Unlikely. Any party which has hacked off over 50% of the voters will have a hard time winning under AV.

although the electorate have short memories. i guess they think once the system is changed a victory becomes inevitable. if not this time round then soon enough.

MsHoarder

ninky wrote: »

although the electorate have short memories. i guess they think once the system is changed a victory becomes inevitable. if not this time round then soon enough.

And Labour and the Tories have treated us well? You never know, someone might come from behind....