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AV referendum

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Comments

  • Niksan
    Niksan Posts: 309 Forumite
    I do look at the AV in simplistic terms, as in, I'd prefer either B or C to get in rather than A. For example.

    A = 39%
    B = 31%
    C = 30%

    If for arguments sake, both B would prefer C than A and C would prefer B than A, this would mean 61% would rather have something other than A and 39% would want A, in this case I think the AV systems works because it's what the majority wants, and you can't get that with a first past the post system, there's been many of time I couldn't decide between B and C as there were little difference between them, but I didn't like what A proposed.

    I might be over simplifying this, but it does give the majority of voters to make sure something doesn't happen than something that does. :/ Is this pure horsepap? I need some sugar.
  • robin_banks
    robin_banks Posts: 15,778 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    FTBFun wrote: »
    I'm going to vote yes, as at least its the right direction for proportional representation.

    One argument I've heard from the "No" camp is that it could lead to some seats for the BNP. Unfortunately that is democracy for you, and rather than try and keep out the BNP via artificial means, the mainstream parties should actually have a look at why they're getting votes in the first place.

    edit: I focussed on the BNP but any other extremist party will do e.g. respect

    Which is a complete red herring btw, no BNP candidate is going to get over 50% of a vote which they woudl need to do so to be elected in a constituency.

    They're deliberatly conflating this point with a full PR system where some MP's may not have a 'home' constituency.

    Whenever a BNP councillor gets elected they don't last long as they don't show up at committee, don't understand and make no effort to understand due processes.
    "An arrogant and self-righteous Guardian reading tvv@t".

    !!!!!! is all that about?
  • chewmylegoff
    chewmylegoff Posts: 11,469 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    FTBFun wrote: »
    I'm going to vote yes, as at least its the right direction for proportional representation.

    One argument I've heard from the "No" camp is that it could lead to some seats for the BNP. Unfortunately that is democracy for you, and rather than try and keep out the BNP via artificial means, the mainstream parties should actually have a look at why they're getting votes in the first place.

    edit: I focussed on the BNP but any other extremist party will do e.g. respect

    doubt BNP will win any seats as a result of AV that it wouldn't also win under FPTP.

    everyone except for BNP supporters is likely to put BNP as last choice.

    BNP are only likely to win any seats in proportional representation systems (which is why they won seats in the last european elections).
  • Mallotum_X
    Mallotum_X Posts: 2,591 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker

    i think, if you're going to scrap the current system because it is unfair to one section of voters, then you might as well get rid of consituency boundaries and have full PR and be done with it.

    if the reason to have a change is to make sure that the number of MPs that each party has in parliament correctly represent the way the electorate voted then PR solves the problem, whereas AV is just another botched attempt.

    AV keeps out the likes of BNP and other minority parties who would have got seats under PR. Suspect thats why we wnded up with this as the alternative.
  • chewmylegoff
    chewmylegoff Posts: 11,469 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Mallotum_X wrote: »
    AV keeps out the likes of BNP and other minority parties who would have got seats under PR. Suspect thats why we wnded up with this as the alternative.

    it's true that the BNP would have won 12 seats at the last general election (where they won 1.9% of the vote) if we had a pure PR system with no constituencies.

    for two reasons, this is not a valid excuse for shying away from PR

    (i) if people vote for the BNP they should be represented in the same way that people who vote for any other party are. that's what democracy is. if you don't like people getting what they vote for then we might as well just ask gaddafi to come and run the UK - it would save us on cruise missiles and parliamentary costs.

    (ii) the only reason they'd win 12 seats is that there are a stupidly large number of MPs.
  • FTBFun
    FTBFun Posts: 4,273 Forumite
    it's true that the BNP would have won 12 seats at the last general election (where they won 1.9% of the vote) if we had a pure PR system with no constituencies.

    for two reasons, this is not a valid excuse for shying away from PR

    (i) if people vote for the BNP they should be represented in the same way that people who vote for any other party are. that's what democracy is. if you don't like people getting what they vote for then we might as well just ask gaddafi to come and run the UK - it would save us on cruise missiles and parliamentary costs.

    (ii) the only reason they'd win 12 seats is that there are a stupidly large number of MPs.

    Excellent post.

    Going OT a tad but perhaps if Labour hadn't spent the last 15 years trying to disenfranchise the working classes as much as possible the BNP might not have gained any support? As I suspect there is a certain level of support for the BNP that isn't necessarily neo-fascist but have a perception no-one cares what they think.
  • wotsthat
    wotsthat Posts: 11,325 Forumite
    I think it's wonderful that the AV debate has allowed politicians from different parties to work together. I'm glad they chose AV as it's one of the most interesting and vital issues of the last few years.

    I don't think they they should have timed the referendum to be on the same day as local elections - surely this will lead to long queues at polling stations. Maybe the polling could have been staggered over a number of days in anticipation of the unprecedented turnout.
  • movilogo wrote: »
    I received polling invitation on 5th May for AV referendum.

    Can someone please explain on exactly what it asks referendum for?

    It is perfectly simple.

    AV stands for "Alternative Vote".

    So you go to the next General Election and find you can vote for Conservative, Labour, Liberal, Green, UKIP, BNP, Monster Raving Looney......

    If you vote "Conservative", then your vote is counted.
    If you vote for anyone else, it becomes void, but instead, your vote goes to an alternative - the "Conservative" party.
  • Mallotum_X
    Mallotum_X Posts: 2,591 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    wotsthat wrote: »
    I think it's wonderful that the AV debate has allowed politicians from different parties to work together. I'm glad they chose AV as it's one of the most interesting and vital issues of the last few years.

    I don't think they they should have timed the referendum to be on the same day as local elections - surely this will lead to long queues at polling stations. Maybe the polling could have been staggered over a number of days in anticipation of the unprecedented turnout.

    Or maybe the usual apathy will apply and there will be a turn out of about 30% in large parts of the country.
  • RabbitMad
    RabbitMad Posts: 2,069 Forumite
    Guido has a fairly ammusing piece on the BBC's attempt at explaining AV

    http://order-order.com/2011/03/30/av-too-much-for-bbc/
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