Change of Address Fee - Rip Off - Views Please

mikey72

kingstreet wrote: »

I'm just looking at my docs from last year.

On one page, page three, it clearly shows the premium breakdown, auto-renewal and how to opt out, cancellation charges and proportionate premium payments for short-term cover and details of other charges, such as alteration fees, direct debit rejection fee and duplicate document fees.

As page one is an introductory letter and page two details the cover I've bought it seems page three is a reasonable place. The print is the same, with bold headings for the "ups" and the "downs" so I'd say this insurer has done everything it can to ensure I get a full picture of costs and benefits.

It was emailed to me for checking about twenty minutes after I completed the purchase, online.

So you got the t&c's with all the costs after you had paid?
That's were the cancellation charge would be if you didn't like them then?

mikey72

lisyloo wrote: »

I think you are grossly exaggerating here.
There are usually section titles and if you know what you are looking for you can find it very quickly.

Give me the name of a random insurer (off the top of your head) and if you like we can both time how long it takes us to find the information. Let's do that as an exercise and see exactly how difficult it is. You name the insurer, I'll name the feature to look for.
I will of course use section titles etc. rather than reading the whole lot.

This is very simple to avoid. Don't give them your real phone number.

BTW - I was scuba diving in Egypt last year.
I was really cross to find I had to wait for a doctor and have a medical (only £10) because I had prescription medication.
I was very cross that I had not been told this. Because if I had, I might have got it done for free at my doctors and not wasted time hanging around on holiday.
I said "This is a major thing, loads of people have precsriptions it should be highlighted".
They said "Well it might be major to you, but it isn't to other people and we cannot highlight everything".
So I think you have to accept that what is important to you might not be important to others.
You need to accept that if there were KEY FACTS then they might not be the ones that you want.
As you say certain things are already higlighted, but not the ones you want, I think you have to accept that it isn't possible to highlight everything that everyone wants.
There would still need to be some reading on the part of the customer if they want to be familiar with their contract even if there were key facts.
and this would not solve the problem, becuase most people don't read it AT ALL.

So not only did you not read all the t&c's, but if you really want to compare it to the op, it would be the same as them telling you £10, then actually charging you £16 when they did it.

Remember, t&c's quoted by vusys1

vusys1 wrote: »

Administration fee (for Amendment) £15 + IPT = £15.75 (wef 4/1/11 £15 + IPT at 6% = £15.90) Direct Line

actual charge £26

Dangermac

I have been in the insurance industry for many years, and have seen many changes. Many for the better but also many for the worse.

Direct Line really changed the face of the (private car) insurance industry, and helped to make it more efficient.

However, in my view, the past 2 or 3 years, the insurance industry has got itself into a real cul-de-sac.

The consumer demanded cheaper premiums, and that's exactly what it received. Many insurers have wafer-thin profits, and many have no profits at all, particularly for car insurance.

The result is, that they are looking to make up the shortfall by making charges for minor policy adjustments.

Personally, I would rather that the initial premium contained a little more 'fat' to cover these amendments. However, my view flies in the face of what most consumers want when they are purchasing the policy (although they soon change their mind when they need to make a change) and also the industry's regulator, the FSA.

So here we are. Unrealistically cheap premiums (although this is now starting to change) meaning that insurers are attempting to recoup wherever they can.

I am sure that you will agree that this is no different to almost every other large industry in the UK:

Motor Dealers (make very little profit on new cars)
Banks (make no profit from running your current account)
Supermarkets (make little profit from bread/milk etc)
etc etc

It seems to be the way that our country is going.

Do I like it? Definately not.

However, whether we are talking about insurance, car dealers, supermarkets etc, Consumerism has partly helped to get us where we are today.

Unfortunately, we are all partly to blame.

DM

kingstreet

mikey72 wrote: »

So you got the t&c's with all the costs after you had paid?
That's were the cancellation charge would be if you didn't like them then?

No. I'd read the terms and conditions on the screen earlier. I was simply referring to the documentation I was issued after the sale to confirm its clarity in comparison with others.

I perhaps should have said;-

"After viewing the terms and conditions before submitting the application, I was then emailed the documentation for checking about twenty minutes after I completed the purchase, online."

kingstreet

Dangermac wrote: »

So here we are. Unrealistically cheap premiums (although this is now starting to change) meaning that insurers are attempting to recoup wherever they can

Yes. And they can't stuff the lid back on Pandora's box, so we now get higher premiums and the admin fees as well!

mikey72

Dangermac wrote: »

Banks (make no profit from running your current account)
Supermarkets (make little profit from bread/milk etc)
etc etc
DM

But, like the insurance industry, still make record profits year on year, and hand out huge bonuses to those in the business.

So, at the end of the day, do the customers believe the year end figures, published by the companies themselves, and audited by the appointed accountants, or do they believe spin with no figures to ever back it up?

(As to giving customers want they want, it's more the image of a frenzy of backbiting rats scrambling over each other in a frenzied heap, desperately trying to get to the top, shouting "pick me!")

lisyloo

In reply to #44

Do brokers mention all the pitfalls if you call them? DO they mention about autorenewal or tell you about ALL the charges that might be applied in respect of circumstances X, Y or Z?

No they don't sit you on their knee and read the entire booklet to you.
Neither to they have ESP.
But if you have specific requirement, for example you say "I don't want high amendment fees" OR "I don't want auto-renew" then they should advise you accordingly.
If they advise you wrongly then you have some comeback via their liability insurance.
If you get it wrong yourself you have no comeback.
You can't expect them to read your mind, but if you express requirements then they should advise you.
A good broker should do some sort of "fact find" to try to work out what is important to you.
Whenever I've gone to any financial professional they have always done this to try to find out my requirements, but if you have specific requirements (like you don't want auto-renew) then you need to tell them.
Of course I am not saying all borkers are brillinat at their job, but on the whole I'd say they know more than the average DIYer.

But we presume that everyone is like us don't we?

No I don't assume everyone reads their policy, but it's still their responsibility.
If they chose not to then they have to accept the consequences.
I never read every single worked, I look at the important bits. I might miss something. That's my responsibility if I choose not to read the whole lot.

What about a 78 year old gentleman whose eyesight is failing due to cataracts, who has difficulty with reading all the bloomin' bumph they send out

I do have an 83 year old mother-in-law with cataracts.
I do all her paperwork for her.
But for all those without reliable family then I'd say they really need to find a broker and should not attempt DIY in this case.
Family is better, but a local broker would be the fallback.
BTW - they should possibly not consider driving with such bad eyesight :-) but I understand your point.
My in-laws can't do any paperwork.
That does absolutely NOT exclude anyone from responsibility.
For example if you were knocked over by an elderly person who had bald tyres and lost your leg - would you say - "never mind, they couldn't check their tyres could they". I doubt you would.
You'd want the person to face up to the responsibility of what they had done regardless of the difficulties for them in checking their tyres.
Responsibilities have to be accepted however large the practical considerations (and I DO accept they exist - I have elderly family and know all about it).
You are surely not saying that because something is a little difficult that people should be absolved of all responsibility are you????

who finds himself paying as much as half his premiums again if he moves home or changes his car because of "admin" costs?

Should have got advice from a borker and not done DIY AND expressed his requirements.

Anyway, his bag did not fit in the gauge because the wheels stuck out by 1cm too far.

The sizes are published in advance.
To be harsh he should have measured and checked.
If everyone bought cases too big, then there would eb a problem, so whilst it seems minr, they do have to enforce it otherwise it would be the thin end of the wedge.
In this case I agree that £60 is an extortionate rip off whereas I don't agree £26 for insurance admin is a rip-off. Some insurance fees are too high, but £26 is one of the reasonable ones.

lisyloo

In reply to #45

...if I'm reading this correctly you went scuba diving, and before the dive, they wanted to make sure that there were no health reasons that would make this unsafe for you....is that correct? Isn't that sensible?

Oh agree that's sensible.
But I would have preferred the option of having the medical work done at home rather than taking up my holiday time. My fault I didn't read the small print.
My point was that what was important to ME and what I wanted in KEY FACTS was not appropriate to others (who did not use mediation).

But clearly, diving school staff aren't medically qualified so they had to get a doctor to give you clearance to dive (to ensure your safety and protect the diving school from any negligence)? Sounds reasonable to me...

Agreed. I'm not arguing that it's not sensible. Just that it was hidden in the "small print".

..and you were cross because you had to wait for a doctor to come? Did you expect that the diving school pay doc to sit around in the background?

No, I was cross that it was in the SMALL PRINT.
Ultimately it's my fault but at the time I was cross with them for not putting it in the KEY FACTS and making it obvious to me, in which case I would have had a medical at home.
I was entierly wrong for not reading the small print.
The point I was making was that what would be in KEY FACTS for me (with medication) would not be the same as KEY FACTS for everyone else (without medication).
(Actually people do sit around in Egypt a lot sa there is not shortgaeg of labour which was why I had to wait only 10 minutes).

...and you were charged £10 for a highly qualified professional to attend and give you a medical....wow that's cheap compared to the fees some insurers are charging for low-skilled telesales staff to spend two minutes updating details on an insurance policy! I think you got a bargain there Lissyloo

It' a different country, so different economically.
But yes you are right, the charge was tiny, I am not at all bothered about the money (it was a 5* holiday so I can assure you it was irrelevant).
I was bothered about the TIME aspect and I would have preferred to have been examined by my own doctor who knows a lot more about my medical history.
I totally accept it's my fault for not reading it and I am not saying it's not sensible.

The point I was making that you appear to have missed, is that KEY FACTS will be different for everyone and therefore impossible to have (in anyway that would satisy everyone).

lisyloo

In reply to #47

My last insurer certainly didn't display those facts so clearly. Sure they were in the documentation, but were made far less prominent than that

If it's not to your satisfaction, then why not give your business to a good honest insurer who IS CLEAR.
Surely you would want to support those businesses?
I would certainly not want to support any rip-off merchants or comapnies who don't make things clear.
The choice is simple - don't give them your business. You CHOSE this insurer who doesn't make things clear to you.

lisyloo

In ereply to #48

if not then change address on renewal or with new insurer when time comes!

This is bad advice.
If you move hose the risk changes (possibly quite seriously).
This is not simply an admin change, but in many cases a fundamental change to the risk being undertaken.
Must definitely be advised to the insurer or you risk not having a claim paid or even worse being prosecuted for fraud.