Total bathroom redesign

*Alice*_2-2

Our bathroom is in desperate need of improvement. We had no extractor fan until a few weeks ago, no heating (so lots of condensation and mould problems) and the mixer tap is now broken so having a shower is difficult. It can be done, but isn't particularly enjoyable.

So, I've been busy researching, buying, getting quotes...

It's only a small room, about 2m x 1.5m. The plan is to:
Rip out old suite and tiles (and probably crumbly old plaster underneath!)
Alter our ancient plumbing, add a stopcock in the loft where the old lead pipe emerges from the wall and changes to copper, and sink the downward mains pipe into the bathroom wall
Alter plumbing to suit new locations of sanitary ware, and add a towel rail to the central heating system, which currently doesn't include the bathroom
Replaster entire room inc. ceiling
Lay marine ply floor covering
Fit new bath, toilet and vanity unit
Tile 6m2 (standard 20cm ceramic tiles with a border strip mid height) around bath
Paint the remainder of the room
Install shower panel, screen and towel rail, mirror
Lay vinyl floor

So far I've got some free 20cm ceramic tiles, border tiles, a twyfords toilet, trojan bath, bath waste, ideal standard taps, and the vanity unit, towel rail and shower panel from Home of Ultra. Total: £1175

I've been getting quotes for the labour and they vary massively. For all the labour above and basic materials e.g. pipes, plaster, adhesive...
£1100+materials, £1350, £1603.07, £2200, £2500, £2750
or one person quoted just the plumbing for about £1000

What do you think of those prices?! Bear in mind I'm in London... I would rather pay a bit more and have a proper job done than employ cowboys and pay for it later.

How much do you think the materials would come to?

I was quite impressed with the guy who quoted £1350 - I was surprised he was so cheap. He also offers a one year defect liability on workmanship and materials. I did a bit of research and found his company on company house - it was dissolved last year and appears to have never actually submitted any accounts. Feeling a bit wary now. He also said the work would be completed in 10 days. Would the plaster have enough time to dry before painting/tiling in that time?

The plumber who quoted £1000 seemed the most thorough when he came to quote. He was the one who identified the strange layout of our bizarre plumbing.

I already know a plasterer who did our front bedroom when the ceiling collapsed(!). He quoted £370 for the bathroom, assuming it has to be stripped back to the brick.

I also have the details of a tiler who did a friend's bathroom and made a very good job of it. He charged him £45/m2, but that was for marble tiles. I think he charges about £20/m2 for ceramics.

John Lewis quoted me £213 for supplying and fitting the vinyl floor, which was labelled as £23/m2. Given it comes on a convenient 2m roll meaning I only need to buy 1.5m.... I was house sitting for a friend recently whilst his carpet was being installed, and the fitter said he could fit my vinyl for about £50, so I'll probably use him. I could either get vinyl through him, or the John Lewis one - supply only.

I'm seriously considering trying to co-ordinate several different tradesmen. As someone said in another thread, that could have implications in the future should something go wrong. It also means our bathroom will probably be out of action for longer. However, they are all experts in their own area, which avoids the possibility of a "jack of all trades, master of none". I also have some contacts already that way. As far as price goes, as a rough estimate, £1000 + £370 + £120 + £50 = £1540

Like everyone, I want a good job done, but not to pay an unreasonable amount for it. I've tried to strike a balance between price and quality with the materials and I want to do the same with the installation.

So many choices and so little knowledge. Any comments would be extremely gratefully received!

Oldsoak

You sound like you have your head screwed on right and are realistic about trades. You need to let plaster dry at the rate of 1 day per mm for finish coat. However, if you are going back to brick, then it might work out quicker to dot and dab plaster board onto the walls (known as plating the walls), then skim them which would only require a couple of days to dry out. As for the plumbing and tiling, I or anyone else would have to see it to give an accurate quote. Having said all that £1550-2000 in London sounds very reasonable.
Just a cautionary note, make sure you know in advance if the materials are included in the quote or are they labour only with materials as an extra cost.
If you know where your tiles are going to go to on the walls, tell the plasterer not to polish that bit as it is unhelpful when trying to stick the tiles to it. Also, if you have it plaster boarded then you should 'tank' the shower area before tiling (your tiler should know how to and he should suggest it).
Good luck.

*Alice*_2-2

Arrrgh! :eek: I've had a message from the plumber. This is why you ask for things in writing...

"Further to our meeting the other day, my quote for installing your bathroom is £1000. If you would like me to arrange for the old bathroom to be stripped out and it all to be removed from site I can have it done for £250."

Is it me, or is £250 for taking out the old bathroom daylight robbery? Everyone else has included it in the quote.

Oldsoak, thank you for your reply, v helpful and you also gave me an idea. Would it be a good idea to use hardibacker or similar rather than plasterboard in the bath area? Maybe the changeover between plasterboard/hardibacker would be awkward, although the edge of the tiling is at the door frame & window, so it might not be so bad. Or just use hardibacker on the one wall that will be completely tiled? Knowing a little bit means I have far more questions than answers. And no definite trademen yet to ask. Asking questions can be a good way to assess tradesmen, but only if you know the right answers!!!

Maybe I should go back to the idea of getting someone to do it all. :question:

I'm off to take out my frustration on the tiles and find out what the wall is like behind them in a non-damp area. :wall:

The_Blue_Hatter

*Alice* wrote: »

Arrrgh! :eek: I've had a message from the plumber. This is why you ask for things in writing...

"Further to our meeting the other day, my quote for installing your bathroom is £1000. If you would like me to arrange for the old bathroom to be stripped out and it all to be removed from site I can have it done for £250."

Is it me, or is £250 for taking out the old bathroom daylight robbery? Everyone else has included it in the quote.

Oldsoak, thank you for your reply, v helpful and you also gave me an idea. Would it be a good idea to use hardibacker or similar rather than plasterboard in the bath area? Maybe the changeover between plasterboard/hardibacker would be awkward, although the edge of the tiling is at the door frame & window, so it might not be so bad. Or just use hardibacker on the one wall that will be completely tiled? Knowing a little bit means I have far more questions than answers. And no definite trademen yet to ask. Asking questions can be a good way to assess tradesmen, but only if you know the right answers!!!

Maybe I should go back to the idea of getting someone to do it all. :question:

I'm off to take out my frustration on the tiles and find out what the wall is like behind them in a non-damp area. :wall:

If he is just removing the suite then it sounds pretty expensive. If he is also removing the tiles, plaster, flooring etc then its probably not too bad.

phill99

Oldsoak makes some very pertinent points.

If I was doing this it a rough price would be 1500 - 1700 (without seeing the job). That would include all plastering, removal and disposal of old suite, tiles etc, new pipe work, fitting of new suite, tiling, decorating and ply lining floor. I don't do all the work myself - I sub some stuff out. Granted, that may be a bit more expensive than a Jack of all Trades, but you get people that are specialists in their fields. This would come with a 12 month guarantee on all workmanship.

I think £1000 or £1200 is far too low. Something would have to give at that for a job to be of a high standard. I'm not convinced at all that one man can be a good plasterer, tiler, plumber and decorator - life isn't like that.

*Alice*_2-2

Are you in London Phill99?!

It sounds like a reasonable price would be in the region of £1500-£2000. Inclusive of materials, VAT etc. That's helpful to know. I'll check with the plumber whether his £250 includes walls, floor etc.

If I book people separately, I'm looking at at least £1800, so that's actually not too bad.

How much do you think the materials would come to? Pipes, connections and ancillaries, grout, mastic, adhesive, plaster boards, plaster, screws, fixings, trims & anything else you can think of that's missing from the list.

Cheers everyone, you're being really helpful. :j