Forced to leave nightshift under TUPE - without an option for redundancy

jasperpie

Hi there

I have been working for my company for 8+ years, 7 of which have been on 12hr night's (3 on 3 off).

20 days ago I was advised (along with 40 other employees) that our job role is being located offshore and outside of the EU under TUPE regulation. At this point I was advised that as the company are NOT offering redundancy and there are less than 100 effected we only get 30 days notice.

I have the option of either going to the offhore partner, although I have not been presented with a relocation package at all - even though this had been promised. (only 10 days left of consultation mind)
secondly I have the option to move onto a day shift. With this I am changing my jobe role significantly - and I will loose my shift premium, and if I have to apply for a job on days (with the same company) I may be subject to a pay cut. I believe that if I am asked to move to an area I keep my base wage without the shift premium.
Thirdly - I leave - possibly, very slight possibility of serverence. (basically getting booted out and I cant take them to the cleaners)....Oh and surprise - they havent provided us with a severence package either.

The company has submitted a HR1 form - so they must forsee redundancy but they are playing that card close to heart.

There have not been enough jobs presented to us as staff to accomodate everyone (in our skilled area and location), we have not been given a relocation package at all and we only have 10 days left.

The company is the veil of TUPE as its basis for offering this mediocre. Clearly a grey as TUPE is - when it involves an offshore non EU county things become murkier. It is being managed extremely badly where as even our representatives dont have the answers as the company doesnt have them to give. (or wont give them). We have submitted counter proposals which has proven frutile... it is a complete farce.

this is merely the tip of the iceberg but could anyone suggest where I may stand legally or what actions I can take.

I cant afford an employment solicitor mind, as within 2 weeks I will loose 40%+ of my wages - plus its a pretty huge company I work for so I cant post too much online.

Thank you in advance

dugdale_2

Trade union ?

getmore4less

Check with ACAS

Also check your house insurance for legal cover.

AIUI the offshoring would be automatic redundancy from the old company TUPE would not apply.

AIUI TUPE must be to a UK operation and be substantialy the same unit as if nothing had changed(once TUPEd then the changes can start).

If the new company wants to offshore the jobs then that would I think be an automatic potential redundancy unless overseas relocations are specific in the old contracts that overseas relocation(not basic mobility clauses).

For any other potentialy suitable alternative which involves any change in location/hours/roll would be down to contracts and the implied terms that makes some mobility clauses more restrictive than they may at first appear.

there are quite a few places for info and interpretations read a few to get a concensus.
try this as a starter.
http://www.tssa.org.uk/article-46.php3?id_article=1382

edit: found another one
http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file20761.pdf

Andy_L

What does your existing contract say on being moved of night shift? Most I've seen allow you to be moved off shift with an appropriate amont of notice and/or compensation payment.

Does your existing contract provide for more than statuarory redundancy? If not then, unfortunatly, thats all the new employer has to offer

Again, does you're exising contract say anything about relocation?

jasperpie

Hi there.

Our company doesnt recognise a trade union, although we are entitled to have them present in certain meeting - this one would of course fit the bill.

The company has already moved the work offshore - or be it 60-70% prior to us being notified. This clearly means the decision had been made prior to any discussion.

With regards to our contract of employment. It changed in 2006 and then modified in 2009 - which I cant get my hands on via the company.

With regards to working offshore - although relocation is the companies first preference, we have had nothing in writing or even verbal as to the agreement. The call centre overseas is not owned by us but an american blue chip company (i think) - but ran by those in singapore.

The company have already said they WILL NOT at all offer redundancy, voluntary or compulsory. They are proposing possible severence - in which case it will save against tribunals etc.

May i add that 30 days ago, there about. Another area within the company were offered voluntary as there job was no longer required. They were offered 5 weeks for every year capped at 6 years. PLUS - 3 weeks per year uncapped after that. Plus unused holidays - notice in leau and other benefits unknown at present.

They claim also we are not entitles to the usual 8-12 weeks notice due to being TUPE.

We have passed the details to a barrister (but the response is limited due to the lack of information the company have provided). EVERY answer is that it would need to be discussed in inividual consultation, but we cannot move out of group until we are all in united agreement.

ACAS have been very generic with the answers too - for the same reason as above.

catch 22 with time running out eh - rock and a hard place I think.

I will have to await further information from the company but I will keep you posted.

thank you for replying s soon - and I will explore the avenues mention in greater detail.

Thanks again

p00hsticks

jasperpie wrote: »

Hi there.

Our company doesnt recognise a trade union, although we are entitled to have them present in certain meeting - this one would of course fit the bill.

Regardless of whether they officially recognise a union or not, there's nothing to stop you joining one, and as you point out, it's in curcumstances like these that they could help you out anyhow - but I'm guessing that you don't belong to one ?

jasperpie

too true p00hsticks - I am not part of a union.

i have never really needed to be as we have been assured our job has been that of business demand and desire.

I will have to speak to someone and se if I can be accepted now that i am under the 30 days.

I would like one - to get in, and get ahold of the HR1 form thats been submitted as I want to know the date this was submitted. that could in itself blow the TUPE out of the water if this agreement was arranged prior to the merge - then it becomes a whitewash.

I will look in to union representation tomorrow hopefully, but I am looking at employment solicitor help too, and I have little time to juggle both. I will try my damn-est to make the time though.

8+ years, 30 days notice, and after working it out I will lose 8k overnight. Only 30% of my wage but with mortgage, car and my wedding in june - I am not gonna role over.

IF ANYONE KNOWS (PLEASE).

If we havent come out of group consultation, and we still do not have answers to counter proposals, relocation or the severence (all or any one of). Can the company deem us as being uncooperative and make us compulsory redundant? -- Or would the 30 day period be extended to allow us to make final arrangements?

Sorry for all the questions and blabbering on but I am completely inthe dark with this one as the policies than can and cannot be imoposed.

Thank you all again

grimsalve

Constructive dismissal?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/Dismissal/DG_10026696

forcing you to accept unreasonable changes to your conditions of employment without your agreement (eg suddenly telling you to work in another town, or making you work night shifts when your contract is only for day work)

jasperpie

Would there be any reason not to take this to the media. I would of course need to make this annonymous as I would be in jeapordy of being relieved from my position should we say. but could it be a worthwhile approch?

Oh - and still no further information provided!!!

getmore4less

What UK business entity are they TUPEing you too?

It is them that wil have to make you redundant if the they no longer need you and cannot provide a suitable alternative.

jasperpie

getmore- I truly wish i didnt have to be so vague. If i could post minutes and exact particulars I would. I just cant jeopardise any chance we have of a positive outcome with hasty post's online.

Not wanting to sound paranoid but the industry I am in - I will guarantee this is being watched - either by the company or someone wanting a brownie point/pat on the back.

Hey if anone reading this is legally affiliated with solicitor/tribunal law/acas/union etc I will happily email direct with docs I have dug out. (i will check to see if affiliated though - if i can) lol