Tenants rights

en1gmaz

My daughter is a student and has been renting in London since September. I think the landlord has ensured everything is in his favour and none in hers or the other 2 girls who are sharing with her.

I understand that fair wear and tear are acceptable but the landlord has written into the contract that it must be left as they found it down to the fact that he had the oven professionally cleaned at a cost of £130 and all metal blinds (of which there are 8) must also be professionally cleaned at a cost of £15 each. Surely that should be part of his own remit?

The contract names the TDS where the deposit would be held but our investigations show they don't hold it and he hasn't given any notice of it being held anywhere else. I feel this is so that he can hold onto any deposit he sees fit. They had a problem with condensation and notified the LL and he said it was their fault and due to the fact they haven't aired/heated the place enough. They do have the heating on but use sparingly because they can't afford to have it on all the time. He said he now will be charging them to fix the damp problem they have caused!

Although there have been occasions that he has had to gain entry to sort things, at other times he just turns up without giving prior notice. They asked him to give them 24 hours and he informed them that he had been renting out properties for 10 years and hadn't given 24 hours previously and wouldn't be doing so now.

He needed to replace some tiles over Christmas and when we dropped my daughter back, he was there in a t shirt and with the heating on and it was very warm. He said he would give them some money towards heating when we mentioned how warm it was but he hasn't been forthcoming and it's very difficult to know how much he used (although he told us he had been there every day from Boxing day to 8th Jan!).

My daughter is extremely concerned that he will give them a bad reference as he is so particular - telling them they don't clean the grout in the kitchen/bathroom tiles enough, they always have to remove shoes before entering the flat with wooden floors (which they do) etc etc so she is worried that the bad reference will stop her being able to rent elsewhere.

Quite a few issues there but how should we go forward to ensure that it is more evenly balanced?

Thanks in advance

BitterAndTwisted

en1gmaz wrote: »

I understand that fair wear and tear are acceptable but the landlord has written into the contract that it must be left as they found it down to the fact that he had the oven professionally cleaned at a cost of £130 and all metal blinds (of which there are 8) must also be professionally cleaned at a cost of £15 each. Surely that should be part of his own remit?

Absolutely not! It's the tenant responsibility to return the property in exactly the same state of cleanliness at the end of their tenancy as it was at the start. Why should the landlord have to bear the cost of cleaning up someone else's dirt?

Was there an inventory at the start of this tenancy?

The contract names the TDS where the deposit would be held but our investigations show they don't hold it and he hasn't given any notice of it being held anywhere else. I feel this is so that he can hold onto any deposit he sees fit.

Well, he can't. You daughter and her flatmates do have remedies to reclaim their money.

They had a problem with condensation and notified the LL and he said it was their fault and due to the fact they haven't aired/heated the place enough. They do have the heating on but use sparingly because they can't afford to have it on all the time. He said he now will be charging them to fix the damp problem they have caused!

I don't blame him! The overwhelming majority of causes of condensation and consequent mould are due to the tenants' lifestyles rather than any inherent deficiencies in properties. Lack of ventilation together with inadequate heating where no efforts are made to mitigate vapour will almost inevitably cause condensation. Drying laundry indoor will almost guarantee it.

Although there have been occasions that he has had to gain entry to sort things, at other times he just turns up without giving prior notice. They asked him to give them 24 hours and he informed them that he had been renting out properties for 10 years and hadn't given 24 hours previously and wouldn't be doing so now.

No landlord has an absolute right to enter any residential property at will without the tenants' implicit agreement. You daughter and her flat-mates should consider changing the barrels of the locks to prevent access.

He needed to replace some tiles over Christmas and when we dropped my daughter back, he was there in a t shirt and with the heating on and it was very warm. He said he would give them some money towards heating when we mentioned how warm it was but he hasn't been forthcoming and it's very difficult to know how much he used (although he told us he had been there every day from Boxing day to 8th Jan!).

Then they need to discuss this with the landlord like grown adults.

My daughter is extremely concerned that he will give them a bad reference as he is so particular - telling them they don't clean the grout in the kitchen/bathroom tiles enough, they always have to remove shoes before entering the flat with wooden floors (which they do) etc etc so she is worried that the bad reference will stop her being able to rent elsewhere.

That may be so but no landlord is entitled to pass comment and be taken notice of about how they decide to live in their own home. What matters is in what state they return the property at the end of the tenancy.

Quite a few issues there but how should we go forward to ensure that it is more evenly balanced?

Thanks in advance

Things are not necessarily completely unevenly-balanced. To be frank, I think your daughter, as she is a grown adult, should be able to tackle these issues and potential issues on her own.

Other than the landlord letting himself in their isn't necessarily anything to worry about immediately.

If the landlord has definitely not protected their deposits, there will be recourse available to them as it's an offence to not have protected it. Courts have been know to award three time the deposit as a penalty for not doing so. Perhaps this numpty landlord isn't aware of that and perhaps your daughter and her flat-mates should consider keeping this information to themselves for the time being.

00ec25

I second all that B&t says
Also it would seem that the contract pays at least lip service to the OFT's advice on unfair contract terms - the cleaning charges are specific rather than vague but whether they are "reasonable" and thus exactly comply with OFT guidance is for your daughter to investigate

see point 1 here:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=42197100&postcount=13

en1gmaz

Thanks both.

Bitterandtwisted, there are a couple of things I have issue with here and suspect you are a LL?

Yes, my daughter is technically an adult but we all live and learn and she has never had the opportunity to experience the ins and outs of what is acceptable and what is not (neither have I for that matter, having being saddled with a mortgage for most of my adult life and never rented).

The condensation issue: I open the bathroom window after a shower until the steam clears and I dry clothes on the radiators in winter and have lived in my house (over 150 years old) for over 10 years and have NEVER experienced damp caused to my property. He has vents installed in the windows in every room which would suggest to me that he is aware of the problem. The girls open the window also and still wake up every morning with water dripping down the walls. When they have left the bathroom window open all day (tiny window) he complained about that.

Entering the property without giving notice: The law states you should give 24 hours notice unless an emergency - so why should he be allowed to overlook this? My daughter says she feels as if she is living in his home rather than hers, as she has frequently come home to find he has been in her bedroom and taken a step etc out of there and removed things that were on there. Surely everyone is entitled to personal space especially if they are paying for the privilege? She does not feel he dishonest as far as stealing any of her possessions but feels uncomfortable about him entering her bedroom and fishing around. She wouldn't dare change the locks he would go mad! He is very proud of his flat and doesn't allow them to even hang pictures let alone change anything as considerable as the locks and they couldn't afford to anyway. They finish their contract in June.

I thank you for your advice on the other matters

Oh and one other thing. I accept what you say about the oven but surely they could clean metal blinds and they would be clean and shouldn't need professionally cleaning after 10 months. He is insisting on the 'professional' bit.

BitterAndTwisted

The landlord can insist on absolutely anything he likes but that does not mean that his demands are reasonable. As you mentioned yourself earlier "the landlord has written into the contract that it must be left as they found it" which is absolutely correct BUT how they choose to achieve it is up to them. The landlord cannot insist that they hire a professional cleaner to achieve it and I doubt that a deposit scheme's arbitrators or a court would either. You didn't answer my question about whether there was an inventory at the start of this tenancy and this could be crucial.

Unless and until your daughter and her flat-mates challenge the landlord letting himself into the property they are just going to have to tolerate it. Changing the barrels on a lock (rather than the actual lock) takes about five minutes with a screwdriver and would cost about a fiver.

That there are trickle-vents on the windows does not prove that there is a problem with damp in the property. As I said before the overwhelming majority of problems with condensation are due to the way the tenants choose to live but that does not mean in every single case.

And no, I am not a landlord and I have never been one either.

00ec25

en1gmaz wrote: »

The condensation issue: I open the bathroom window after a shower until the steam clears and I dry clothes on the radiators in winter and have lived in my house (over 150 years old) for over 10 years and have NEVER experienced damp caused to my property. He has vents installed in the windows in every room which would suggest to me that he is aware of the problem. The girls open the window also and still wake up every morning with water dripping down the walls. When they have left the bathroom window open all day (tiny window) he complained about that.

Entering the property without giving notice: The law states you should give 24 hours notice unless an emergency - so why should he be allowed to overlook this? My daughter says she feels as if she is living in his home rather than hers, as she has frequently come home to find he has been in her bedroom and taken a step etc out of there and removed things that were on there. Surely everyone is entitled to personal space especially if they are paying for the privilege? She does not feel he dishonest as far as stealing any of her possessions but feels uncomfortable about him entering her bedroom and fishing around. She wouldn't dare change the locks he would go mad! He is very proud of his flat and doesn't allow them to even hang pictures let alone change anything as considerable as the locks and they couldn't afford to anyway. They finish their contract in June.

I thank you for your advice on the other matters

Oh and one other thing. I accept what you say about the oven but surely they could clean metal blinds and they would be clean and shouldn't need professionally cleaning after 10 months. He is insisting on the 'professional' bit.

This LL sounds like he used to live in the flat hiomself as still sees it as his home? Nothing you can do about that but clearly it colours his judgement

Sorry but re condensation my father owned a house for 46 years, it is only since my brother started living there again (as an incompetent adult ) that mould developed in the bathroom - mould is usually (*not* always) because tenants do not take as musch care to ventilate as owner occupiers. Trickle vents are required on all windows under building regulations fitted after a certain date - the fact they are present means nothing more that the windows are compliant with that particular BR at that date, it does not reflect the need to correct a pre-existing problem

You are absolutely right about access. I highly sympathise with your daughter's concerns about "what" he is doing in her room - however you have rejected the right you have (change the locks) which will guarantee a solution so not sure what else you are wanting?
DD can insist till she is blue in the face that he gives notice but if he ignores it all she can do is a) complain , b) change the locks or c) talke LL to court for breach of common law right ("right to quite enjoyment")
a) won't work and c) would cost too much and lead to eviction

re cleaning if you read the link I posted it clearly states that a LL cannot insist on a "professional" clean, only that the property be returned in the same state as it was rented out - how this is achieved is not the LL's business

en1gmaz

Thanks again both - this is very helpful Bitterandtwisted - yes there was an inventory which they did go through with the LL. He is a very organised chap and had folders on everything but we did comment that the gas check was out of date and he said he would get onto it but hasn't (only just remembered that one as you mentioned the inventory - I am sure he intended to and needs a reminder)

00ec25 wrote: »

This LL sounds like he used to live in the flat hiomself as still sees it as his home? Nothing you can do about that but clearly it colours his judgement

No I don't think he did, he owns several properties and is just very proud of it. He obviously wanted females to live there judging by the pink/purple kitchen!

Sorry but re condensation my father owned a house for 46 years, it is only since my brother started living there again (as an incompetent adult ) that mould developed in the bathroom - mould is usually (*not* always) because tenants do not take as musch care to ventilate as owner occupiers. Trickle vents are required on all windows under building regulations fitted after a certain date - the fact they are present means nothing more that the windows are compliant with that particular BR at that date, it does not reflect the need to correct a pre-existing problem

Ok so surely it's a difficult one to prove and if the deposit was with a mediator (which it clearly isn't) how do you sort that one out? The fact that it was newly painted makes it a difficult thing to assess.

You are absolutely right about access. I highly sympathise with your daughter's concerns about "what" he is doing in her room - however you have rejected the right you have (change the locks) which will guarantee a solution so not sure what else you are wanting?
DD can insist till she is blue in the face that he gives notice but if he ignores it all she can do is a) complain , b) change the locks or c) talke LL to court for breach of common law right ("right to quite enjoyment")
a) won't work and c) would cost too much and lead to eviction

Is that a right then that you can change the locks? I am very surprised by that one! To be quite honest I don't think they would go that far at this stage (she will be home for over a month from the weekend and then there will only be a month remaining) but it was just about giving the whole picture about the LL and I didn't know what you could do about it.

re cleaning if you read the link I posted it clearly states that a LL cannot insist on a "professional" clean, only that the property be returned in the same state as it was rented out - how this is achieved is not the LL's business

Thanks. I think I'll clean them myself

Interestingly, there were 'professional women' in prior to my daughter, and on the day they were contracted to move in they had to delay the time and also put up with the LL there the next day also because he said the flat needed professionally cleaning because he wasn't happy with the standard that it had been left in. The professsional cleaning was him doing it :rotfl:

I think I am a bit more in the know now thanks to you both

00ec25

en1gmaz wrote: »

. He is a very organised chap and had folders on everything

so ... no gas safety certificate, no deposit protection, and thinks he's got free access as well - sounds like the only thing your LL is organised about is not following the law!!

en1gmaz wrote: »

The contract names the TDS where the deposit would be held but our investigations show they don't hold it and he hasn't given any notice of it being held anywhere else. I feel this is so that he can hold onto any deposit he sees fit.

if you have confirmed that the deposit is not registered with the other 2 schemes (which I trust you reaslise do not physically hold the cash but the fact of the deposit payment must still be registered with them) then:
- either make a real fuss about it now reminding the LL it is an offence not to do so (see here for the implications)
- or hold off til he refuses to refund deposit and then take action then to impose the implications then

re your comment about mediation - you are of course correct about how difficult it could be but that is why the deposit schemes use independent arbitrators where the onus is on the LL not the T to make the case to the arbitrator for the deduction.

"The fact that it was newly painted makes it a difficult thing to assess." Not really - what it means is the girls have to return the property back to the condition it was in, after allowing for fair wear and tear - so they do not have to re-paint it, but it must be returned mould free and as clean as it was to start with. Mould is not wear and tear and, as it seems highly probable that the mould is due to condensation, then that really is down to them to control as an implicit term of the contract is to "behave in a tenant like manner." This means not to do anything which causes damage to the property - mould would eventually lead to real damage

angrypirate

Look on the bright side - if he hasnt protected the deposit and then doesnt return it, you can take him to court to claim for 3 times the value of the deposit. He'll also probably be done at the same time for not having a gas safety certificate

tbs624

en1gmaz wrote: »

the landlord has written into the contract that it must be left as they found it down to the fact that he had the oven professionally cleaned at a cost of £130 and all metal blinds (of which there are 8) must also be professionally cleaned at a cost of £15 each. Surely that should be part of his own remit?

Ts are obliged to return the property in the same condition as originally let to them, save for fair wear and tear - LL can ask for items to be cleaned to a "professional standard" if he can demonstrate that they had been provided in that condition.

en1gmaz wrote: »

The contract names the TDS where the deposit would be held but our investigations show they don't hold it and he hasn't given any notice of it being held anywhere else. I feel this is so that he can hold onto any deposit he sees fit.

LL doesn't have a choice - he is *legally obliged* to scheme register their tenancy deposit and give them a copy of the scheme's prescribed info. They can check online with DPS and mydeposits, the two other schemes and then formally request that the LL complies with the Housing Act 2004

en1gmaz wrote: »

They had a problem with condensation and notified the LL and he said it was their fault and due to the fact they haven't aired/heated the place enough. They do have the heating on but use sparingly because they can't afford to have it on all the time. He said he now will be charging them to fix the damp problem they have caused!

Haringey Council have a useful guide to damp and condensation - google it.

en1gmaz wrote: »

Although there have been occasions that he has had to gain entry to sort things, at other times he just turns up without giving prior notice. They asked him to give them 24 hours and he informed them that he had been renting out properties for 10 years and hadn't given 24 hours previously and wouldn't be doing so now.

Then his years of experience have taught him nothing. When he signs an AST he grants the Ts "exclusive occupation" of the property. He has limited rights to "inspect" the property so that he can meet his S11 repairing obligations (LL&T Act 1985) and to access in emergencies. He is however, obliged *by law* to give a minimum of 24 hours *written* notice and the Ts can ask for another mutually convenient time/day if they need to.

en1gmaz wrote: »

He needed to replace some tiles over Christmas and when we dropped my daughter back, he was there in a t shirt and with the heating on and it was very warm. He said he would give them some money towards heating when we mentioned how warm it was but he hasn't been forthcoming and it's very difficult to know how much he used (although he told us he had been there every day from Boxing day to 8th Jan!).

He should not have been in th eproperty without the Ts consent and he most certainly should not have availed himself of heating at their expense.

en1gmaz wrote: »

My daughter is extremely concerned that he will give them a bad reference as he is so particular - telling them they don't clean the grout in the kitchen/bathroom tiles enough, they always have to remove shoes before entering the flat with wooden floors (which they do) etc etc so she is worried that the bad reference will stop her being able to rent elsewhere.

The views of a LL who fails to get a gas safety cert done, lets himself in and out of the property at will and fails to protect his Ts deposits are of very limited value. The girls should ensure that always notify any repairs/maintenance issues ( in writing, with copy kept) and when they come to move out they photograph absolutely everything, including inside white goods, on tops of furniture/shelves and down the lav. They will be able to show another LL that they paid rent on time (yes?) and evidence of how they left the property.

Did the girls use the Uni accoms office to find this LL ? If they did, they need to let them know about his lack of professionalism: if they didn't they should choose a Uni-registered LL next time

There will also be a local Council private sector tenancy relations officer who can offer guidance.

Quite a few issues there but how should we go forward to ensure that it is more evenly balanced?

As you only mention 3 students, this property is presumably not an HMO ( House in Multiple Occupation)? The LL can inspect the communal areas, so changing of locks would not be advisable if the property did fall under that category.

IMO, the LL needs to be in receipt of a firm but pleasant letter from the Ts reminding him of *the law*, followed by a change of lock barrel.

Criminal offence to fail to get an annual safety check undertaken, separate one to fail to provide T with a current GSC, and yet another one for failing to be able to provide GSCs to cover the past 2 years.

Whilst I agree that it's good for students/any young adults to learn how to deal with miscreant LLs there is nothing wrong in you supporting them with that learning process, especially if you are acting as a guarantor/provider of the tenancy deposit.

Brallaqueen

Some HMO contracts (where only the rooms are rented for exclusive occupation) do allow for the landlord to access the communal areas at will.

Indeed, for licenced properties and certain accreditation schemes the landlord has to make monthly checks on fire alarms and fire doors to make sure they are operating effectively.

This would not include the bedrooms (notice must be given)