Stupid question about HMOs

tiny_tear

Hi
Just a stupid question but googling hasn't been my friend. My husband said not to bother but I am curious...

My husband owns a flat (England) and rents it out. he rents it out to 2 guys. and these two guys signed the contract.

we had to go to the property on saturday (full notice and permission given by the tenants) because we needed to check the roof because of some cracked tiles and the guys weren't there and there were two girls there.

One of them could have been a guest, but the other was definitely living there (she was very thankful we got a new washing machine soon after the other one broke - that was at least the agency being efficient and earning their fee for once)

• Is it an HMO when more than 3 people live in a flat? (it's a 2 bed place)
• Could there be any problems with the girl (or girls) not being in the lease?

The flat was in good condition and we have no problems with them personally (apart from the fact we had neighbours emailing us because they were having loud fights in the stairwell in the middle of the night) so we are happy with the situation - especially after previous tenants from hell

I guess I just want to know if we are not breaking any rules and if there won't be an issue with there being more people living in the flat than are on the lease...

Thanks

CloudCuckooLand

http://www.hmo.org.uk/
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/hmos.htm

tiny_tear

Thanks.

So this "An HMO is a property that is shared by three or more tenants who are not members of the same family." does it mean the flat is now an HMO?

We were never told the girlfriend/s were moving into the flat, we were never asked...

Thanks. I had found one of those links, but just don't understand...

poppysarah

Are they on the tenancy?

No.

Are they shacked up as gf/bf - does that class as family?

tiny_tear

poppysarah wrote: »

Are they on the tenancy?

No.

Are they shacked up as gf/bf - does that class as family?

I was hoping that as they are as gf/bf and sharing a room it would count as a family or household, so in that case a 2 bed flat would not be a HMO as there are only 2 households...

I guess I just don't want my husband to get into trouble as he seems to have had bad luck with his tenants (the last pair left the place a complete wreck and there were only there 1 year... the deposit wasn't enough to pay for it all to be made good and they haven't paid the rest... and i doubt they will)

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

tiny_tear wrote: »

So this "An HMO is a property that is shared by three or more tenants who are not members of the same family." does it mean the flat is now an HMO?
.

The "3 or more unrelated people" is the case in Scotland to register an HMO, but in England it's 5 or more.

Landlords must register their HMO with the council if the property has 3 habitable storeys or more AND is occupied by 5 or more people in two or more households.

Regardless, even the three or more in Scotland does not apply to couples, whether married or not, so long as living together as a genuine couple.

So.... In Scotland.

Two couples are OK.

One couple and a single are OK.

One couple and two siblings are OK.

One person and two siblings are OK.

Two people are OK. Even if they occasionally have their girlfriends or mates stay over, so long as it is not their primary residence.

In England, it's slightly different as it talks of "households", but as follows.

Two couples are OK.

One couple and two singles are OK.

Two couples and one sibling of someone in the couple are OK.

Four mates are OK.

etc

Hope that clarifies things.

tiny_tear

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The 3 or more unrelated is the case in Scotland, but I don't think it's in England yet???

Regardless, it does not apply to couples, whether married or not, so long as living together as a genuine couple.

So....

Two couples are OK.

One couple and a single are OK.

One couple and two siblings are OK.

One person and two siblings are OK.

Two people are OK. Even if they occasionally have their girlfriends or mates stay over, so long as it is not their primary residence.

Hope that clarifies things.

Brilliant thanks! I was getting all confused! I probably have been reading these forums too much and just thinking of all that could go wrong! :rotfl:

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

tiny_tear wrote: »

Brilliant thanks! I was getting all confused!

No problem. Have edited to explain the difference between Scotland and England.

I probably have been reading these forums too much and just thinking of all that could go wrong! :rotfl:

This place will certainly do that to you.

tiny_tear

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

No problem. Have edited to explain the difference between Scotland and England.

ha! and we (my husband) also have a flat rented out in Edinburgh. But fortunately we have a great agency there so haven't had any questions so far...

It is actually interesting to see the differences between Scotland and England - not only in law, but also in tenants minds and habits (the Scots pay less and want it all - microwave, vacuum cleaner, kettle, etc... in London when I used to rent I never had any of that in any flat, I bought my own...)

Thanks again!