unfair term in contract: pay for professional cleaning when moving out

westlondonbuyer

clairet707 wrote: »

Seriously £500 for a 2 bed flat?

I think youve been ripped off - either that or you have the Queens cleaners doing it... Though you do live in London (?) so maybe thats why its costs more

Yes, it's called the West London "postcode tax". All maintenance companies assume you're loaded when I can assure you I'm not

As it happens, I was delighted with their work and used them a few times.

I've also been stung by a few fly-by-nights when I was a newbie landlord. You can pay a lot and get very little for your "professional" cleaning service, so be sure to do your research.

00ec25

there is no such thing as a model tenancy agreement,

1. Your deposit will be protected in one of the TPS schemes - if the LL claims for failure to professionally clean then you can counterclaim for an unfair contract term and the TPS dispute resolution service will adjudicate (or you can take the LL to court and let the court decide)

2. The OFT publish a 123 page guide to unfair tenancy contract terms: the relevant bits (mostly at page 48) are below:
cleaning charges [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]- a requirement to pay for cleaning at the end of the tenancy may be unfair if it is vague or unclear about the basis on which money will be demanded, or the extent of the cleaning involved. Such a term is more likely to be fair if the amount of the charge is expressly limited to reasonable compensation for a failure to take care of the property (see also our views below on excessive charges) [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]excessive cleaning charges [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]- as a matter of normal practice in short lets, reflecting the common law, tenants are expected to return the property in as good and clean a condition as it was when they received it, with fair wear and tear excepted. We therefore commonly object to terms that could be used to make the tenant pay for the property to be cleaned to a higher standard than it was in at the start of the tenancy, or that require cleaning regardless of whether or not this is necessary for the tenant to comply with their normal obligations with regard to the state of the property [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]excessive penalty terms which should be deleted from contracts - The landlord may, if the tenant fails to keep the property in a clean and presentable condition, employ the services of a professional to do so and charge the tenants any costs incurred therefore[/FONT][/FONT]


make of that what you will, I'm not a lawyer - as said if you don't like it, and they won't delete it from the contract then don't rent the place

G_M

As others have said, tenants are rarely in a position to 'negotiate' on terms like this at the start. The landlord's agent will simply look for another less demanding tenant!

Agree, and rely on the OFT unfair terms when the time comes to leave.

1) Assuming you are in Eng?Wales, make sure your deposit is in a recognised scheme, so you'll have access to their dispute process later
2) Read (and amend!) any inventory carefully before signing. Do NOT sign it in the agents oofice. Wait till you are IN the property and can compare what it says with the actual condition of the property. Once you have signed, THAT is the baseline against which future damage/cleanliness will be judged

rexmedorum

Yes I hate this, they twist your arm which I hate, the previous agent point blank refused to show us a draft and said that making any changes to it was not possible anyway.

How would one use the OFT, without screwing up once reference by the way?

G_M wrote: »

As others have said, tenants are rarely in a position to 'negotiate' on terms like this at the start. The landlord's agent will simply look for another less demanding tenant!

Agree, and rely on the OFT unfair terms when the time comes to leave.

1) Assuming you are in Eng?Wales, make sure your deposit is in a recognised scheme, so you'll have access to their dispute process later
2) Read (and amend!) any inventory carefully before signing. Do NOT sign it in the agents oofice. Wait till you are IN the property and can compare what it says with the actual condition of the property. Once you have signed, THAT is the baseline against which future damage/cleanliness will be judged

G_M

You can't. You are dependant on the LL / agent for a reference and they can write what they like (short of libel). So if you p*ss them off, your reference is likely to suffer (unless they just want to get rid of you!).

Sorry.

rexmedorum

G_M wrote: »

You can't. You are dependant on the LL / agent for a reference and they can write what they like (short of libel). So if you p*ss them off, your reference is likely to suffer (unless they just want to get rid of you!).

Sorry.

Here lies the problem in the system! And no landlord ever requiers a reference from previous tentents saying that they are a good landlord? I actually think that would only be fair.

I've had my fair share of worthless LL's :mad:

alezzandro

snugglepet20 wrote: »

if they will not negotiate and you really want the flat you will have to agree but clean the flat yourself and pay a cleaner for 1 hour so you get a receipt!

I think this is the most intelligent thing to do if they don't change the contract. From a logical point of view, there is no link between a piece of paper and the cleanliness of a house. What is a "professional cleaner"? One that produces a receipt? Or maybe one that produces a receipt of at least, say, £200?

If there is no clause on the sum or time that has to be spent on this, surely they cannot complain if the receipt is for 1 hour only. It probably means that the cleaner came, found nothing to do, and went!!

ps: Sorry for this rant, I find clauses like this extremely irritating.

G_M

Look - there's nothing to stop tenants asking LLs for a reference before they sign up. I'd happily provide the details of my previous tenants, provided they agreed.

And as for this "pay a cleaner for 1 hour so you get a receipt!" - how many times does it need saying? THIS IS AN UNENFORCIBLE CLAUSE so there is no need to get a receipt. You just need to leave the place as clean as you found it. How you achieve this cannot be dictated to you. Use a professional; do it yourself; ask your mum to come round....

Unfortunately many landlords, and indeed agents, insert unenforcible clauses in their contracts. I've seen one recently that said the LL would hold the deposit in a savings account. Not only unenforcible but illegal (in Eng/Wales).

Just ignore the rubbish clauses as they can never be enforced!

rexmedorum

yes there is it's called a lettings agency :rotfl:I have tried in the past but they weren't best amused

G_M wrote: »

Look - there's nothing to stop tenants asking LLs for a reference before they sign up. I'd happily provide the details of my previous tenants, provided they agreed.

It may well beuninforcable, but they have already told me the insit on seeing receipts. Hence they intend to at least try to inforce it. I am thinking that if we resit that, we at the very least screw up or reference and hence won't be able to get a new place?

G_M wrote: »

And as for this "pay a cleaner for 1 hour so you get a receipt!" - how many times does it need saying? THIS IS AN UNENFORCIBLE CLAUSE so there is no need to get a receipt. You just need to leave the place as clean as you found it. How you achieve this cannot be dictated to you. Use a professional; do it yourself; ask your mum to come round....

Just ignore the rubbish clauses as they can never be enforced!

BitterAndTwisted

By the time you've found another property, signed up and paid any holding deposit to secure it, it will be before you've handed the old (present) property back all nice and clean just as it was at the start of this tenancy. So the issue of a reference to secure your onward move is irrelevant. Just accept this nonsense about cleaning-receipts as an unenforceable clause and let the deposit-scheme's arbitrators do their job if necessary. You can be absolutely certain that the arbitrators are well aware of the OFT guidelines even if the agent and/or their landlord is not.