Should I buy my daughter a scooter / moped?

tbourner

pigpen wrote: »

I lost my uncle and nephew in the space of a few months to m-bike accidents... though my uncle it was his own fault.. he misjudged a corner and went headlong into a concrete gate post.. his internal organs mashed themselves on his ribs cage and his insides were soup.. thankfully.. yes there is a plus point.. he died in less than seconds and his several hundred pound helmet protected his face from any damage so his relatives could see his body if they chose to.

Hope you don't take offence to me posting this in response to your story:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObeFgvc8ysQ
Aimed at stopping bikers racing on public roads.

[Deleted User]

pigpen wrote: »

Unless of course you are riding merrily along at between 30-35 MPH on a straight road in broad daylight and some to$$pot of a driver pulls out 6ft in front of you without even slowing for a junction..

Exactly how could a bike rider prevent that???
...

It is called defensive riding. When riding you are constantly looking ahead at potential hazards.

So for example if I am riding along a road and I see trees further down I think about how the area is shaded and so probably damp, also in Autumn there will be leaves on the road and so the area will be much more slippy. Also, it will be darker in the shade and so I will be able to see less and also be less able to be seen.

Driving along a straight road which has junctions coming on to it you are looking far ahead for vehicles that may possibly pull onto the road so you should not be in a situation where this happens. You never assume you have right of way even if you do.

You are taught a lot more driving skills when you ride a motorbike. There will always be situations you cannot anticipate, but some of the best bikers are police bikers and they very rarely get caught out so it is a skill that can be taught.

Humphrey10

Recently, I drove head on into another car, I have no memory of the accident (probably a seizure, I've now surrendered my driving license you'll be glad to know) but the other driver says we were both going about 30, they couldn't do anything to avoid my car. I, the other driver, and their passenger all survived with just cuts and bruises (both cars written off).
I don't think they would have been OK if they'd have been on a bike, bikes/scooters are just not as safe, and it doesn't matter how good your driving is, if someone drives right at you.

pigpen

Spider_In_The_Bath wrote: »

It is called defensive riding. When riding you are constantly looking ahead at potential hazards.

So for example if I am riding along a road and I see trees further down I think about how the area is shaded and so probably damp, also in Autumn there will be leaves on the road and so the area will be much more slippy. Also, it will be darker in the shade and so I will be able to see less and also be less able to be seen.

Driving along a straight road which has junctions coming on to it you are looking far ahead for vehicles that may possibly pull onto the road so you should not be in a situation where this happens. You never assume you have right of way even if you do.

You are taught a lot more driving skills when you ride a motorbike. There will always be situations you cannot anticipate, but some of the best bikers are police bikers and they very rarely get caught out so it is a skill that can be taught.

So you are riding along.. you see a lorry coming out of a store car park.. you have right of way and are also 8-6ft from the junction.. so you'd stop just in case the driver was a total moron?

I don't think so.. and I don't think anyone else would either.. and neither do the police or else the lorry driver wouldn't be looking at prison.

And the one traffic officer I knew who was on bike crashed it into the back of a stationary car and did himself enough damage to be retired.

tbourner

pigpen wrote: »

So you are riding along.. you see a lorry coming out of a store car park.. you have right of way and are also 8-6ft from the junction.. so you'd stop just in case the driver was a total moron?

No, you prepare to stop but plan to continue (as you should always do on the road), and move over to the side of the lane you're in. If he pulls out you can either stop (if there's space/time) or just go past on the far edge of your lane - the only possible way you would get in trouble is if you're going too fast, and the truck pulling out to completely block your lane happens in a time that is shorter than your stopping distance.

sock-knitter

my twin boys are 16 next month, and one of them has asked for a scooter, my answer is no chance.absolutly no way, i've had bikes in past, and on the last one, some pillock drove straight at me, he was reading a map, i swerved to avoid him, and luckily my leathers protected me, as i slid across the road, sold the bike after that, too many idiots on the roads nowadays.
i love my kids too much to allow them to have a scooter at such a young age

diable

paddedjohn wrote: »

a lot of people are having a go at the safety of scooter riders, ive had scooters for 20 odd years and had no accidents. the way people are going on its a wonder we go out of the house, ive see plane crash,s but i still fly, ive seen trains crash but i still travel by train and ive certainly seen car crash's but i still drive, good training and good equipment is what is needed regardless of age.

In London I have seen many a bike rider taken out through no fault of their own and wouldn't risk it myself especially as some women on mopeds ride around in a skirt, heels, jacket and MoMo crash helmet.

pigpen

tbourner wrote: »

No, you prepare to stop but plan to continue (as you should always do on the road), and move over to the side of the lane you're in. If he pulls out you can either stop (if there's space/time) or just go past on the far edge of your lane - the only possible way you would get in trouble is if you're going too fast, and the truck pulling out to completely block your lane happens in a time that is shorter than your stopping distance.

Pile of crap...

The police forensics said there is no way nephew was going more than 30-35 MPH (in a 40mph zone), lorry driver doing 40+ (in the stores 5mph zone) pulls straight out without even hesitating.. there wasn't time to think about braking let alone moving around a huge lorry .. the police and the coroner both concluded he didn't stand a chance.. otherwise it wouldn't be a manslaughter charge it would have been called an accident or death by dangerous driving.

He didn't stand a chance so you are in fact talking a complete and utter unadulterated pile of dung, as far as the incident which killed my nephew is concerned. You are saying every bike rider in an accident is so because they are incompetant.. which is untrue, many drivers of cars and lorries are incompetant and careless and reckless as in their brumbrums they are indestructable.. you can't say every bike rider is unable to use the road safely because car drivers are godlike and couldn't possibly be at fault.

In some circumstances your theory might be useful in others it is completely inaccurate claptrap.. but then most theories are right in some circumstances... that doesn't make them right 100% of the time.

There are just some morons out there who are a danger to themselves and other road users and I wouldn't be risking the life of my precious child by buying them a motorcycle of any kind.

tbourner

pigpen wrote: »

The police forensics said there is no way nephew was going more than 30-35 MPH (in a 40mph zone), lorry driver doing 40+ (in the stores 5mph zone) pulls straight out without even hesitating.. there wasn't time to think about braking let alone moving around a huge lorry .. the police and the coroner both concluded he didn't stand a chance..

Sorry I didn't realise you were talking about a specific incident, since you only asked:

pigpen wrote: »

So you are riding along.. you see a lorry coming out of a store car park.. you have right of way and are also 8-6ft from the junction.. so you'd stop just in case the driver was a total moron?

Which is a generic question, one which my answer is suitable for.

pigpen wrote: »

He didn't stand a chance so you are in fact talking a complete and utter unadulterated pile of dung, as far as the incident which killed my nephew is concerned.

Probably, that's why, on no less than 3 occasion in this thread, I've said there are exceptions:

tbourner wrote: »

9 out of 10 accidents can be prevented if the rider is aware and takes early avoidance for potential dangers

tbourner wrote: »

There will obviously be an exeption circumstance where there's nothing you can do

tbourner wrote: »

As I said, there are exceptions to everything, there are exceptions to being safe in a car/plane/train/in bed. The thing I worry about most is people stuffing into my rear wheel when I'm stopped - not much I can do about that other than pulling forward into a busy junction!! I'm just arguing that everyone sees the figures and thinks bike=death, it's simply not true.

pigpen wrote: »

You are saying every bike rider in an accident is so because they are incompetant..

No I'm not. See above.

pigpen wrote: »

Many drivers of cars and lorries are incompetant and careless and reckless as in their brumbrums they are indestructable..

Most car drivers are inconsiderate and don't pay anywhere near enough attention to the road

pigpen wrote: »

you can't say every bike rider is unable to use the road safely because car drivers are godlike and couldn't possibly be at fault.

I haven't said that, in fact I refer you to my earlier post yet again:

tbourner wrote: »

It's usually the car drivers fault but that doesn't mean the rider should just merrily ride along thinking "I have right of way here".

If you're going to reply to my posts in a negative way at least READ my posts first, that way you'll see I actually agree with you on most of your retorts.

peachyprice

Couldn't have put it better myself PP.

tbourner is obvioulsy lucky that he has never encountered such pillocks on the road, but to suggest that they are so easily avoided is frankly insulting to those of us who have family members who have.