eBay and PayPal - PROBLEM!

jamiexxmufc

Hello everybody. Newbie here with a problem.

I've recently moved into my first humble abode and to try and keep my head above water financially, I have had to let go of some possesions. Including a £370.00 mobile phone. I sold the phone via eBay just over a month ago. The buyer paid by Paypal and I transferred the funds into my account.

A few days ago I received a rather blunt e-mail off Paypal saying that the funds used to pay for the item we're 'unauthorised'. I called Paypal customer services to find out what is going on and was told, a Paypal member had fraudulently used somebody else's account (bank or paypal, I don't know) to pay for the item and that Paypal has had to return the funds back to the original account holder, and that I am now liable to pay back £365.99 within 120 days, this to me does not seem fair but after arguing my point to Paypal, it seems they didn't care because I was not under the Seller Protection.

This does not seem fair and I am hoping that someone could shed some light on the situation for me as I am really confused.

Thank you in advance for any help, it will be much appreciated.

:beer:

frivolous_fay

To stop this kind of thing happening, you must:

- Send to a confirmed address, and check you have buyer protection
- Send via trackable means

If one of the above doesn't apply, you are fairly powerless in the event of a fraudulent chargeback

Paypal will chase you for the debt; what it means is that the owner of the credit card that paid for the phone has reported that his card was used fraudulently. His credit card people have taken the money from pp, and now pp will try to get it from you. If you had taken the money out, your pp account will now be in the red.

I don't know specifics about pp's debt collection tactics, or the best way forward for you (have you checked your buyer lately? is he still registered? does he respond to emails?) but thought I'd post to let you know what you're up against.

jamiexxmufc

He/she is registered but predictably not replying to e-mails. I did send via Royal Mail Special Delivery, will this make a difference? They said I have 120 days to get my account back upto 0 balance before it is reffered to the collections dept. I could easily pay it back, but I don't want to until I know for sure i'm not going to get it back.

frivolous_fay

Without the cooperation of your seller, there is precious little chance of getting it back

Did paypal send an email giving you the opportunity to prove that it had been sent to the real buyer?

jamiexxmufc

No, they just said about the fraudulent funds and that 'unfortunately' I am liable for them.

frivolous_fay

There's a similar case here...

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=307081

kevinyork

OK.

I take it he does not have a verified and confirmed Paypal address as sending it by Special Delivery should then cover you for the chargeback and you should get in touch with Paypal to defend the chargeback - best to phone them first.

If not, I would write to the buyer with details of the transaction and delivery of the goods stating that he still owes the money for the item and giving 14 days to make alternative payment before you take court action. Also start the non paying bidder process on eBay. If no response to your letter report it to the police and begin County Court Action to get your money back plus add a little for your own costd. Be persistent with the police. This is theft and should be taken as seriously as someone walking out of Dixons deliberately without paying for something. Request the hard copy signature from Royal Mail's website for the special Delivery-will cost you a couple of quid but you will need it. Try putting his details into this site to see if you can confirm his address on the electoral register to gather as much info as you can.

Best of luck.

Morty_007

Hi All,
Can't offer any advice but did just want to point out that the OP isn't talking about a chargeback (ie - instigated by the purchaser, fraudlently saying they haven't received the item), they are saying that Paypal has discovered that the funds used to pay for the item were from a source that turned out to be illigitimate (ie a stolen credit card or hijacked bank account). So the tracking method or even if the buyer received the item is irrelevant.

These are 2 very different situations.

At least thats my understanding of what the OP is saying.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune OP.

soolin

As you say Morty_007 this is not a straight chargeback, it is a fraudulent use claim which is totally different. However I think kevinyork's post is very useful.

Yes continue arguing with paypal, but remember that paypal are bound by credit card legislation so if they are forced to refund they will remove funds from the sellers account to cover. However, it must be remembered that in this instance someone somewhere has committed a crime, this should be emphasised, this is not just a paypal problem this is a much wider problem and should be treated properly.

The OP should have details of where the phone went, and as Kevinyork suggests a copy of the signature should be obtained in case this gets to court. I would suggest in the first instance that an attempt is made to contact the buyer, there have been instances where a buyer says they know nothing about the chargeback and sort it out with paypal before funds are withdrawn. It could even be a really dim scammer who gets frightened when he gets a phone call, or a legal letter addressed to the same address that the phone was sent to and call off the chargeback.

This needs to be fought legally as obtaining goods by deception, or straight theft is a crime. Do not leave this up to paypal, get some independent advice as well.

Soo