Employment Tribunal and Perjury

fabio11

I want to move on but if I drop the case now then the company is planning to take me to court to claim their legal costs etc.
Its a situation
if I keep going I suffer
if I stop I suffer

In any case letter may keep coming if not for ET case then for their legal costs case

Caroline_a

If you think that you would win without the documents you mention then keep on with it, they are currently running up extensive legal costs if their lawyers are writing to you so often. Most tribunals seem to be settled out of court before it ever gets there, due to the heavy costs by lawyers, but many firms scabre-rattle a lot in the hope that the employee will back down. When I took an employer to court a few years ago I knew I was in the right, but it was real 11th hour stuff, only settled (in my favour) the day before, with the ACAS go-between doing a lot of work.

dmg24

They will not be awarded costs against you unless you are shown to be a vexatious litigant. The way you are currently behaving could be evidence of this. I agree with McKneff, either let someone deal with the case on your behalf or cancel your claim. At present, you are heading for one almighty mess.

Uncertain

fabio11 wrote: »

I want to move on but if I drop the case now then the company is planning to take me to court to claim their legal costs etc.

Get proper legal advice but this is most unlikely to happen.

Sadly it has become the norm to make these threats but, as I have explained before, it is very rare for costs to be awarded in an ET case.

Normally, for this to happen, you have to do FAR more than just lose. You need to have either been deliberately vexatious or to have ignored clear advice from the judge at a pre hearing review that you have no case.

Forgive me but is English your first language? From your posts I get the impression it is not. If I'm right this is making it far harder for you.

Also, try to understand that you will not get justice (whatever that may be). You MAY get some compensation but it is generally far less than people think.

no-oneknowsme

McKneff wrote: »

In a word - No.

What you need is to drop it

With all due respect McKneff - and when I say this please note that I do not know anything of the OP's case - sometimes its not as easy as you make out to "drop it and move on" where a Tribunal is concerned.

When you are in the middle of a case it is very easy to let it occupy more of your time and mind than you would like!

Sometimes , regardless of how many people tell you to "drop it and move on" , you just know in your own mind that seeing it through is the right thing to do!

OP , as I say , I know nothing of your case so cant and wont tell you whether you should fight on to the end of let it go now...only YOU can decide which road to take.

I wish you the best of luck in which ever road you decide to take but be aware that going to that hearing alone without legal representation and being faced with an experience barrister is NOT pleasant .

2sides2everystory

2011 is not a good time to be taking a claim through the ET system. They are all way overworked due to the disgraceful almost Victorian employment market we now have to put up with in the UK and as a result you will be likely be messed around by the ET's incompetencies and impatiences at EVERY level.

It used to be the case that representing yourself at one of these things was a distinct possibility and some noticeable cases have been successful, but right now it might be doubly difficult because I do not believe that the judges' patiences extend as often as they should do or did do in providing the balancing 'help' and directions to unrepresented claimants.

Your plan to have hostile witnesses ordered to attend is not in practice very useful because you will not be able to cross-examine them. You would therefore rely upon them making clearly inconsistent statements that might contradict each other's evidence or known facts in order to show any perjury. That would be a gamble, because they are just as likely to come up with more lies which may be your word against theirs.

However, if you think you already have them on the back foot with a heavy file albeit with missing documents already against them then as others have said, it is quite likely that they will at some stage be advised to settle rather than incur more legal costs.

And as dmg24 and Uncertain say, it is unlikely that costs will actually be awarded against you. You would I think get some clear direct written warnings from the judge, and not just a copy of Respondent's (employer's) written applications for costs which is merely a common tactic designed to scare you more than anything else.

Have any Case Management Discussions been called yet? That costs the employer money to have legal representatives prepare for. Same for a pre-hearing review.

And of course a final hearing costs money to see through to completion.

At all of these set pieces it is possible that the barrister attending on behalf of the Respondent will be instructed to try to make an offer to prevent the proceedings going further but in order to get to that stage you will need to demonstrate that you understand more of your rights (in other words that you are taken more seriously) than you have indicated in this thread so far.

It is not enough just to feel hurt by the wrongs done against you and to be seen to complain - you perhaps need to be able to land a few legal surprises on them which cost them time and money to defend.

With regard to the documents which they do not know you have seen, you may be able to use the knowledge you have obtained from them to ensure that your witness statement details the lies as common knowledge.

I am not legally qualified unlike some who have already responded to you here, but I wonder what their feeling might be if you haven't yet written to your old employer and requested a personal data 'Subject Access Request' under your rights granted by the Data Protection Act 1998? This should mean that some of the documents they have refused to give you but which they seem to be acknowledging do exist, will now be provided albeit in a variously redacted (blacked out with thick felt tip pen) form to protect the identity or security of third parties. You should enclose a cheque for £10 made out to your old employer and address it to "The Data Protection Officer".

Do not complicate this routine and simple request by referring to your claim. Treat this as a clinical and routine separate exercise. Request all personal data whether stored electronically or not. They have 40 days to respond.

Depending on what else is happening in the next 40 days, it might yield something.

Some might say it demonstrates weakness if you make the first move ("be the first to blink") but you could also contact the ACAS hotline and say that you wish to move on but you feel strongly that your old employer should not be able to get away scot-free. That is why you made the claim. Say that you would prefer not to have to go through the Tribunal procedure but think that your employer should be made to pay something and at least provide you with a reference so you can restart your life. Tell ACAS you are a man of principle and that you will see the case to the bitter end if the old employer cannot behave reasonably.

Be aware that ACAS are not your friend so do not confide too much in them - they are targeted to settle as many cases 'out of court' as possible and they will quite likely make your case sound almost hopeless, but at least they will call the employer and sound out whether the employer is of a mind to settle now before it goes further.

Or you can struggle on and wait for the old employer to make the first move to settle but it could wellbe a long wait and very last moment on the morning of the final hearing if you have survived that long and maintained your credibility.

I wish you the best of luck.

Our grandfathers enjoyed a better UK employment market than the one we have right now.